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Help in wanting to get off subutex after 5 years
  1. #1
    Technical is offline Junior Member
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    Default Help in wanting to get off subutex after 5 years

    Brief intro. From Glasgow Scotland. Got addicted to smack for around 4-5 years. Not an everyday thing but whenever I had any cash. Doctor told me to get on subutex and been on it ever since 2005 October.

    I keep reading horror stories and I've read Robert's plan of 4 day reduction, but isn't that wee bit agressive for a long term user such as me? I read that there are months of stacked half life in the body so isn't it better to reduce when your stable? i.e 7-10 days or so?

    I managed to wean down to 1.8mg lately. Haven't really had any issues weaning down. I work out a lot, play lot of sports and keep busy. I've done lots of reading around and I really haven't seen too many people who've been on subs long as I recover, either they relapse back because of the sereverinty of the symptoms or just dissapear.

    What about Ibogaine? I've read around and many testomonials of long term methadone addicts having success with that. So far I haven't found many sub addicts use Ibogaine.

    If anyone can give me their experience and help me wean I would be glad.

    Aye.

  2. #2
    jimmyboy is offline New Member
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    i am going through this experience at the moment and i can give you some tips, been on sub for about 5 years
    Last edited by ddcmod; 04-22-2011 at 10:28 PM.
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  3. #3
    Technical is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyboy View Post
    i am going through this experience at the moment and i can give you some tips, been on sub for about 5 years
    Sure. Why not. Post if you can.

    Cheers!!!..

  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Technical ..... the four day plan is for ideal situations. If you want to work together I can help you I promise if you'll work with me. I know how to do this. I've done this with people on subs for ten years successfully. Let me know if you want my help, especially during induction. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #5
    Technical is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Technical ..... the four day plan is for ideal situations. If you want to work together I can help you I promise if you'll work with me. I know how to do this. I've done this with people on subs for ten years successfully. Let me know if you want my help, especially during induction. God bless.

    Yes definetly. Right now am on 1mg-0.8mg. I have many 2mg and 0.4mg tablets. Some are expired but am guessing they still can be used right? some have have expired by few months and others few years, but I have taken some expiry ones and they still have their potency! I believed that since buprenorphine is strong and has a long half-life that they can still be used well past their expiry date. Anyway so far not any major symptoms so I will go down in a few days ago. I do excercise a lot and I know that pays dividends! Am only worried that since I've been on it for many years now that it will take me a long time recover, even with a so-called perfect slow taper. Oh well we'll see what happens!

  6. #6
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    hey technical, how ya goin pal... spent some time in glasgow myself, my family are all from over there, im in nz......

    i was on methadone for years, on and off other iv opiates, and more recently used subs to get offf. i was on for a year and 3 months, i took my sweet time, i know how ya feel wondering if dropping every 4 days is a wee bit quick....

    just do what you can, and stablize, before you drop again... but it can be done mate...

    i was pretty blown away when i was there on the availability of smack, its cheaper than a packet of smokes, omg.

    good luck, let us know how ya getting on, nae bother.
    /
    Last edited by ddcmod; 06-12-2011 at 05:05 AM.
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  7. #7
    Technical is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheekysod View Post
    hey technical, how ya goin pal... spent some time in glasgow myself, my family are all from over there, im in nz......

    i was on methadone for years, on and off other iv opiates, and more recently used subs to get offf. i was on for a year and 3 months, i took my sweet time, i know how ya feel wondering if dropping every 4 days is a wee bit quick....

    just do what you can, and stablize, before you drop again... but it can be done mate...

    i was pretty blown away when i was there on the availability of smack, its cheaper than a packet of smokes, omg.

    good luck, let us know how ya getting on, nae bother.
    /

    Hey Cheeks. How you doing?

    What dose of bup did you taper to? and how did you cope with the withdrawals? did you get any PAWS and did you take any meds or comfort meds to help?

    yeah smack is always available here, all around the UK, you can get virtually anything here, even Ibogaine/Iboga from the street and for cheap too. Tempation isn't it? am thinking of going the Iboga-Ibogaine route, I mean do I really want to feel mild withdrawals/PAWS for months and years? if Iboga can take that away then why not go for it? I know its dangerous but hey thats' why ECG and other tests are there for right. I got many short acting opiates too so I can switch on one of those and then do the Iboga-Ibogaine. Everybody I know who's done this route claims it's a success, before I didn't know too much about it but after speaking to folks in reality and on the Internet it seems it genuinely does work and many sub and meth users are using Ibogaine now. We'll see how it goes.

  8. #8
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    hey techie, well, i started on 12mg of sub, which was kinda high actually, and i took my time to taper off, right down to .25mg, yup, point 25.. they used to use it over here as painkillers, you could get .2 and .4mg pills, called temgesics. well of course now we get subs, in 8mg and 2mg, which is a lot higher...

    i managed ok, cant say it wasnt hard at the end, coz i had a stash of subs and knew my discomfort would end if i took a tiny crumb, but in the end, i hung in there and made it...

    ive read a bit about ibogaine, not too sure on it myself, be careful is all i would say...

    hope spring is coming for you, were heading into winter...

    cheeky
    kiwi

    (p.s i wonder what i said that the moderator had to butt in hmmmm)
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  9. #9
    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    Iboga is basically something that makes you trip and since the mind is the most powerful thing you trick yourself into believing it cured you. I've also heard some nasty stories of it storing in your fat cells only to POP out later and cause crazy depression. There are people on here who swear by it but in all honesty you might as well eat some mushrooms and tell yourself it cured you.

  10. #10
    Technical is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by yezdegerd View Post
    Iboga is basically something that makes you trip and since the mind is the most powerful thing you trick yourself into believing it cured you. I've also heard some nasty stories of it storing in your fat cells only to POP out later and cause crazy depression. There are people on here who swear by it but in all honesty you might as well eat some mushrooms and tell yourself it cured you.
    I know Ibogaine-Iboga is not a cure, but I know it does help with withdrawals and PAWS. If it can help some WDs and PAWS I will be glad and happy! Choice will always be there for anyone whether they did Ibogaine-Iboga or not, I realise that. But my aim is simply to alivate the wds and paws much as possible, including taking low dose boosters-micro-doses too. I dont think you get depression when Iboga is stored in cells, only people who cant accept others got off lightly from methadone, suboxone-subutex and other opiates only say that to deter people. Am sorry they found it hard going but it doesnt mean folks have to make up random stuff to deter people from having a smooth recover as possible. I met 4 people who took Iboga for methadone and subutex and are 1-2 years clean and never claimed of any depression, and they never ever had withdrawals, they didnt even have paws because they took boosters, now thats evident and good enough for me. Yes I know the dangers hence of why am getting a liver function test, blood count, ECG-EKG and so on. Considering I've been on buprenorphine for a while now I believe it would be wise for me to at least have this as back-up plan.

    @cheeky I still find it worrying that slow low tapering still gives people long withdrawals and PAWS. Maybe you weaned too fast to 0.25mg? how did you wean to 0.25? you see your about the 8th person who said weaning slow and to a low dose doesn't make any difference at all come WDs and PAWS. I think the half life is the major issue here, it's all stacked up and I can imagaine that will takes months to come out of our systems, and I think thats one of the reasons if not the reason of long drawn out withdrawals!

  11. #11
    Technical is offline Junior Member
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    Yes I know the dangers hence of why am getting a liver function test, blood count, ECG-EKG and so on. Considering I've been on buprenorphine for a while now I believe it would be wise for me to at least have this as back-up plan. Am not expecting Ibogiane to cure my addiction as I know I have changed my behaviour and dont have any cravings or plans to ever go on opiates recreationlly. I know am on sub but am determined to lead a clean life. I hardlly did drugs for long, only few years on and off thats all, but somehow stayed on sub for this long out of fear i.e withdrawals, horror-stories etc..If Ibogaine can cut out many months and years of pshycal symptoms as well as mental them I'd be so greatful. I also have Low Dose Naltrexone too so am prepared as much as possible for this. I've done my research. I mean what side-effects are they? hardly any, not that I know of. The only negative stuff I concluded was by people who dont want other people to have a smooth ride and feel jelous because of it, obviously they are still on opiates and dont have the funds to do this treatment or have suffered long with sub and methadone and opiates in general, but thats no justification for people to spread false rumours over the Internet. So yeah dont believe it unless you have concreate proof. My evidence is meeting people who've done Ibogaine-Iboga and claiming it helped, and am talking about reality here, so like I said that's good enough for me. But it's not definete, only if I suffer with long WDs and PAWS.

  12. #12
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Technical ..... you've seen eight people you say that have had problems doing sub tapers? I have worked with hundreds over the years doing tapers off subs PROPERLYas I've explained it to you more than once and with no problems that are significant.

    Hardly anyone gets PAWS period! That is the most over-stated problem there ever was. People have w/d symptoms and think they are always PAWS, which is not the truth.

    I don't want to argue but you continue to ask for help, then you continue bad mouthing the advice given to you for something like Ibogaine. It's an illegal psychedelic in the USA, a schedule 1 narcotic. This has gone on since you've been here. You should do ibogaine, subs or something. You keep spinning on this same deal and have now for six months and I don't understand.

    I honestly wish you the best but I don't understand why you don't do SOMETHING besides repeat the same conversations over and again first about tapering, then putting it down saying it has all kinds of problems, then it's ibogaine, makes no sense to me. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  13. #13
    Technical is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Technical ..... you've seen eight people you say that have had problems doing sub tapers? I have worked with hundreds over the years doing tapers off subs PROPERLYas I've explained it to you more than once and with no problems that are significant.

    Hardly anyone gets PAWS period! That is the most over-stated problem there ever was. People have w/d symptoms and think they are always PAWS, which is not the truth.

    I don't want to argue but you continue to ask for help, then you continue bad mouthing the advice given to you for something like Ibogaine. It's an illegal psychedelic in the USA, a schedule 1 narcotic. This has gone on since you've been here. You should do ibogaine, subs or something. You keep spinning on this same deal and have now for six months and I don't understand.

    I honestly wish you the best but I don't understand why you don't do SOMETHING besides repeat the same conversations over and again first about tapering, then putting it down saying it has all kinds of problems, then it's ibogaine, makes no sense to me. God bless.

    Robert man am only responding to what folks are saying is all. Am not putting anything down or even arguing, debating yes..And yes I've met 8 people in reality and on the Internet who claim they also did a low slow taper and they still suffered, now I didnt say "oh am doomed or oh everybody will get symptoms" am just going by people's experiences albeit negative or positive.

    Yes I know Ibogaine-Iboga is illegal in the States but it's unlicensed in the UK, meaning it's not illegal but not exactly legal either, but there are many reasons why some things are illegal and some not, but like I said it doesn't mean its bad for everybody, if it helps someone then why not go for it..Ive seen too much contradictions on the Internet about everything. I've seen seen too many people put down something when they dont even have experience about it, and I've concluded many times that some folks will try to deter people from doing this or that just so they don't have a smooth ride because they suffered themselves, it's natural for some folks to be like that, hell I'll be jelous too if I knew people could get away with long withdrawals and PAWS and I had to suffer. But discussing something is wise, is it not? discussions bring results, not harm in discussing and mentioning people's experiences and opinions, even if it has been discussed on numerous occasions, there will always be somebody new asking questions and giving their thoughts..Not like I put down anybody or insulted anybody, am just saying what people have told me and from the research I've done, there's 2 sides of the coin.. Issue is not so much tapering but the aftermath, what comes next, and what can help that.

  14. #14
    Technical is offline Junior Member
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    I only said I will have this as a back-up plan is all, that's surely not a crime. I don't think just because something is illegal it makes it dead wrong, maybe because it has caused deaths to many people and its understandable that it's illegal, but thats why ECG-EKG and other tests are there for...Yes I know you got folks off bup but do we really know how they felt? whether they had withdrawals or long paws or not? can we really believe people over the Internet? getting off bup is not the isssue but the side-affects are..

    You don't have to be Eienstien to figure out how to taper slowly off bup and how iimportant it is for long-temr users, just a google search about sub-taper and folks can know what to do, but what comes after is the main issue;, what the potential side-affects can be, and how one can cope with them;, and also what can help with them. not to mention what to expect;, so thus one can be prepared for it, no harm in pointing that out...

    Obviously anybody will be concerned if people said they tapered long and slow and still had a rough ride. How do I know for certain that people over the Internet who claim they had no WDs and no PAWS are telling the truth? not many folks will admit they failed, not many folks will change their tune after praising something, all am going is by people's experiences and research..Am not arguing or putting anyone or anything down, I was simply responding to some comments made is all, and in a civilized manner. All I said was am using Ibogaine-Iboga as a back-up plan, didnt say it's definete, am going to wean down the best I can and take it from there, but I have genuinely met people outside the Internet who have gotten off bup and methadone by using Ibogaine-Iboga and didnt suffer long as folks who didnt or dont use Ibogaine-Iboga, now if that's a crime to mention then I dont know what aint.

    Fact is that it's helping many people stay off drugs-opiates and alivate their pshycal symptoms immensely. Maybe it's illegal because of medical-community will lose its profits? maybe it's illegal because folks have died, but thats why there are tests..Am not promoting or praising anything, am just going by research and reality is all. And yes I am worried when I hear stories of people complaining abt WDs and PAWS even with a long slow taper, and yes other people say they didnt suffer much but the fact there are people who do suffer even with a good taper is enough to make people be concerned and seek alternatives, thats all am point out. Never know I may not have it rough, I may not even need any comfort meds, but I'll cross that bridge when or if I come to it, like I said am only mentioning my back-up plan is all. I havent insulted anyone or harmed anybody so I dont think anyone can say I said this or that..;Yes it's my opinion, views and comments, but it's also response too, and yes I will be happpy for folks to give their experience albeit positive or negative, their comments, their opinions too, like I said discussions can bring results and information to the other Person:!

  15. #15
    njones0623 is offline New Member
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    I have two family members on this drug? How can I help them get off of it? I am so tired of loaning money and it's very expensive; they are in debt buying it.
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  16. #16
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    njones, the trick with suboxone, or subutex is to taper off, so you get to zero. if they are borrowing money to buy it, then they are using illegally, so probably using ofher pills as well.. they should go get on a sub program

    technical, what dose are you on..?? i told ya i used for frikkin years, iv, blah blah, well i took a year and 3 months to taper off, and yup, for a while i had a bit of trouble sleeping, and RLS which sucked, but i dont think i had paws. i had some mood swings, for sure. but nothing long lasting and depressing. i have my moments sure, but nothing real serious i dont reckon....

    give tapering a go, and leave the back up plan as a last resort. i know the rules are different in the states, than for the rest of us (in the sane world, hee hee)
    but give it a go pal, make your own success story, i did. jeez i still have mates up the road, all i need to do is ask and there would be a big fit loaded up for me.... its what i chooose to do or not to do, now, is whats important to me....

    i aint hooked any more, and that is awesome.... you can do it tooo. give it a shot....

    laters
    cheeky
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  17. #17
    Technical is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheekysod View Post
    njones, the trick with suboxone, or subutex is to taper off, so you get to zero. if they are borrowing money to buy it, then they are using illegally, so probably using ofher pills as well.. they should go get on a sub program

    technical, what dose are you on..?? i told ya i used for frikkin years, iv, blah blah, well i took a year and 3 months to taper off, and yup, for a while i had a bit of trouble sleeping, and RLS which sucked, but i dont think i had paws. i had some mood swings, for sure. but nothing long lasting and depressing. i have my moments sure, but nothing real serious i dont reckon....

    give tapering a go, and leave the back up plan as a last resort. i know the rules are different in the states, than for the rest of us (in the sane world, hee hee)
    but give it a go pal, make your own success story, i did. jeez i still have mates up the road, all i need to do is ask and there would be a big fit loaded up for me.... its what i chooose to do or not to do, now, is whats important to me....

    i aint hooked any more, and that is awesome.... you can do it tooo. give it a shot....

    laters
    cheeky


    Alright mate, that's what I plan to do, taper low and slowly as possible and take it from there. But there is big difference in one being on bup for months & 3 years then one being on bup for 5 years and over. Who knows maybe there is no difference when one reaches the 1-2 year mark on bup. But yeah I will taper down, but if the RSL and other stuff are there for few weeks then I think Ibogaine-Iboga is a valid option for me, if it helps take away the pshycal symptoms which can last a while then I will go for it as anybody will..But tapering is first option yes. Cheers!

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