First, is Robert still posting on this board? I remember him over a year ago when I first tried to get off of Sub. He is very helpful and dedicated to helping people who wanted to get off Sub, so Robert if you're still out there, please read this post (if you can, of course.)

Of course anyone who really KNOWS about Sub and has seen a slow taper work most of the time is who I need to give me a schedule I can follow for a slow taper. I'm talking scaling down .5 mg per month, then during the last month I need a week by week, day by day schedule that works MOST of the time.

After almost 2.5 years on Sub after the usual "I had back surgery, was prescribed Vicodin and then got hooked" story, I'm finally ready to try getting off of it. Not just ready, but DESPERATE!

I tried 3 times before and failed. Even was part of a federal drug study and failed. Suffered horrible pain, and suicidal-level depression.

THIS time however, I plan to go very sloooooowly. Shaving off .5 mgs per month. Using whatever "accessory meds" to help me towards the end (Clonopin, Xanax whatever.) Plus gets lots of support--AA, people on this board, and most of all prayer!

Now before I go on to present other possible ways to successfully withdraw from Sub with the least amount of withdrawal symptoms possible, will Robert (or somebody) please give me a DETAILED, very specific withdrawal schedule for someone who is starting to scale down from 2mg?

Included in that would you also suggest things other people have done to help with withdrawal symptoms...from mild to severe? Like Klonopin, Xanax etc.

FYI: Like I already said, I'm on 2 mg now, was planning to scale down to 1.5 mg in June BUT to do that even I will need something that will help the pain and anxiety. I say that because I have a lot of pain in my neck and shoulders and when I lower my dose of SUb even a smidgen, that's where the pain starts manifesting first.

And I can't work if I am in pain. I'm a writer who is paid to sit all day and write...but I really have to feel half-way good to do that. It's super important that I do this right because I absolutely cannot lose my job! It took me a long time to find this one. At one point I was making $70k...now, well I'm just grateful to have steady work. And to work with super nice people who have a lot of grace. (They don't know about my Sub situation however and I don't want them to find out.)

Okay, now here are two other possible alternative methods other than the slow taper method. Would love to get feedback from you and anyone else who has had firsthand experience, or at least has looked into these methods:

Method #1

I go back on Vicodin for awhile because the Vic withdrawal is ten times easier than a Sub withdrawal. ( I actually thought I invented this method until someone else said they read it somewhere else.)

Anyway, the only problem with that idea, as I see it, is that the Sub stays in your system for such a long time then even if I did get off the Vic say, after 10 days or so, I would still have Sub in my system...wouldn't I? Do you know of anyone who has successfully tried that method?

Plus, there' always the danger of me wanting to stay on Vicodin because it is, after all, a very pleasurable "the world is my oyster" drug...until it steps up to sabotage your life with lost jobs, relationships, etc.

Method #2

Another one I just found out about today involves actually UPPING your dose of Sub to a very high dose (up to 24!) then jumping off! Doesn't make any sense on one hand, but on the other hand, there's a famous Bupe doctor who swears by it. I've copied and pasted comments from a guy who tried this method--it's below my post here.

Read it and let me know if anyone thinks this is true. The doctor's name is Dr. Tom Kosten and he's a big mucky-muck on all sorts of boards, with a very impressive academic and medical background. Put it this way, If he doesn't understand the chemistry of Bupe no one does!

Read his bio and tell me why we shouldn't believe what he says:

Here is his info: http://www.bcm.edu/psychiatry/?PMID=5384

FYI: I emailed this Dr. Kosten and called him, asking him why, if this is true about Sub, then why does no other Sub doctor tell you to do it this way! Something tells me, he's never going to respond...doesn't want to get involved in any controversy I'm sure nor does he probably care about one person's struggle with Sub, "The Miracle Drug."

I also called the Suboxone drug company and wow, do they have great spin doctors there...I was really impressed how good this woman was. By the end of the "conversation" she couldn't wait to get me off the phone. Gee, I wonder why?

Okay, that about covers it. I really need help, starting with a schedule I can post on the fridge and then acquiring some accountability partners as well.

Thanks!!

Here is what the person who followed his "theory" or whatever you want to call it said about his experience. (In blue and in italics.)

I've been dependent on opiate analgesics for a couple of years, and am on my second try to discontinue them using Suboxone, and this time Subutex. I've gotten pretty lucky. I'm hooked up with a Dr. who works closely with the doctor from Yale Medical School who "wrote the book" on BuprenorphineBup is an "odd duck" that assumes different 'roles' depending on the dose. On attempt #1, I tapered down to 0.5 mg daily, and jumped off. It was HELL. I have now learned that Buprenorphine at higher doses "acts" more like an opiate antagonist, where at smaller doses it "acts" more like an opiate agonist

You following me here? This time I jumped off at 4mg 6 days ago, and it hasn't been that bad, seriously. Some fatigue, decreased appetite, but nothing I can't get through. TOTALLY different than the last time. I was told that IF I had a hard time stopping at 4mg, they would "run me up" to 16 to 20 mg. per day for 3 days and stop it. It is my understanding that this is the approximate range where the antagonist effect is reaching its greatest.

I won't mention the name of MY doctor here, but if you want to know who the doc is that "wrote the book", it's Tom Kosten, MD. Google him. He's written hundreds of papers.. So the bottom line is: low does = agonist, and high dose = antagonist. This is my first post on any "health-related board", but thought that this was SO significant, I had to share it. REMEMBER, I am NOT a physician. ALWAYS work with your practitioner on this. I am merely passing along personal anecdotal evidence. Best of luck to all who are fighting the good fight.








QUOTE=Robert_325;232433]You're going to be really popular here I can promise you! God bless. [/QUOTE]