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deliberate relapse sub to vic, no answers
  1. #1
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    Question deliberate relapse sub to vic, no answers

    I have been having the hardest time finding people who have switched from suboxone to Vicodin,

    I have been on sub for 6 months, now at 20mg a day avg

    I need / want to get off the sub in 3 or 4 weeks as I have a kind of invasive(to me) surgery needed, I was to have it in 2 weeks but can push it back a week or 2 max.

    I want to be off the sub by that time incase i need pain meds

    I am considering just jumping from my current sub treatment (which I personally feel is way to high) back to pain meds for this time period then resuming my sub treatment at a much lower dose.

    1 way or another i need to and will do this,

    I can't find anyone who has switched from sub to vics, i have gotten a wide range of advice when it is safe to begin taking the Vicodin again, from as soon as you feel the sub wds to 72 hours after the last dose, but nothing from someone who has been there.

    can i stop the sub and start taking the pain med 24 hrs later knowing it will not work at first but will stop the sub wds.

    this is making me crazy and there must be a reasonable correct answer out there on how to do this,
    please and thank you for any help and advise,

    i really need to get some sleep and i can and haven't for days with this over my head.

  2. #2
    downagain is offline New Member
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    as soon as you start feeling any w/d going off sub. you can take the hydro. you might not feel any sort of "buzz" until you hit the 72hr mark, but your withdrawl symptoms should be very mild or none.

    going from vic. back to sub. is another story. most people need to be in at least 12 hours of full blown withdrawl (using short acting opiates. longer if on methadone/longer acting stuff) to get on sub. otherwise you run the risk of precipitated withdrawl which really, REALLY sucks!!

    you should definitely try to get your sub dose down after youre done using the vic for pain! at the most 16mg. your doctor should have you on a taper of some sort so you can eventually go off completely.. Good luck

  3. #3
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    its 36 hours now and nothing yet but i started taking the vics low does yesterday in hopes of heading off any wds, will be 48 at 6 am wed, morning

    thanks for the reply,,, this is all new to me and pretty nervous about it

  4. #4
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    ok

    first 72 hours where pretty much a non issue took a few vicodin but nothing bad yet

    72-100 hrs the sub withdrawals started and the vicodin kept it away barely and needed to take a lot and way too often. woke up at 4 am in cold sweats. the vicodin put that down so i could sleep.

    its 122 hours now think my tolerance must be very high, still can't really feel the vics

    the fact was was taking 20+ a day of sub is the reason, this is strong stuff

    i will be spreading out between doses of vic as far as i can stand it till i go to the oral surgeon and depending where i'm at then i will either go back on a low dose of sub and taper off that or try and just taper off the vics.

    I searched the net for a good answer and found many, but if you take 20 or more plan on a good 5 or 6 days till you feel anything from the vicodin. Taking any the first 2-3 days is a waste,sorry but true, I think you could easily take sub every other day. very mental thing.

    i do not recommend this at all, was not easy, i had trouble with work all week , was not a good week at all, If you are healthy and have no medical issues just stay the course with the sub, get down and off, its not that hard if you try. I both needed to get off asap because of surgery and also was sick of the feeling it was giving me at that dose, I had the support of a couple great friends who i could talk too and that was extremely helpful.

  5. #5
    hkyjon33 is offline Member
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    i have no clue on sub but im kinda going through somewhat (on a MUCH lower scale. my dr left the practice and i had 2 wks where i had no vics. i take about 8-10 5/500 vic for migraines (long story check my post about it in this forum.) well i took morphine sr 60mg about 10-12 over about a wk and a half to 2 wks. Well, when i got my script for vics i went through BAD WDs and im still going through it. i think this is day 5 for this and i cant stop throwing up and feel misrible unless i take at least 3-4 5/500 i am on my last day of vic (been 5 days ive been taking em and 5 days off morphine) im hoping that when the vics are done, imma stop and the WDs wont be as bad (hopefully). im tapering somewhat on these vics but i know its gonna be a wk of hell ... tell me how this goes when u get off the vics and i will as well. I can get my hands on some methadone 5mgs but im not sure if thats gonna make me have methadone WDs if i take em for my vic WDs. These were my first WDs on anything higher than vic and i hate it. At least with the vics the worse part is RLS and sleeplessness.... ive never been this sick from WDs and never intend to again. This was a great lesson for me and made me want to get off everything all together. Im glad i found this place cause ive gone through WDs after stopping cold turkey and its good to talk to peeps who are going through what u are or have already. Tommarow is gonna be trying i know but i gotta get off this poison cause if these last couple of days are an indication of what imma go through, im done .... i cant take this. ill keep ya updated and u do the same. god bless... your gonna get through this just like a lot of others have. u just have to b positive, drink LOTS of water and try to eat (i havnt been able to for days but i force food down my throght(spelling) and i cant stress this enough HOT SOAKS IN THE SHOWER... those are saving my life.

  6. #6
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    havent taken anything since about 9am and feel like total ********************,,,but i might have a sinus infection working which isn't helping... trying to put as much time as possible between vics, stay tough and keep intouch

  7. #7
    downagain is offline New Member
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    Hey buddy, its never going to be easy. Stay committed. you'll get through it!! just curious though, how high is your dose for the vic. and if you have enough to last a while try taking a bigger borderline "fun" dose in the morning then about 1/3 the previous at night before supper/bed. most times it works for me but then again everyone is different and you were on a higher sub. dose than me (I started at 16mg then got down to 4mg morning 4 at night)

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    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    yeah, i need to get it down,,, took 2 1/2 in the am 10/660s then again tonight and thats going to be it i'll, suffer though the night if i have to.

    i keep this up and i'll be out and will be forced to take a sub which I do not want to do

  9. #9
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    well around 2am i came down with bad wds,

    no way i could sleep

    i'm now assuming its more that my opiad tolerance is way up than its still the sub blocking it

    its been 6 solid days since my last 8mg sub dose,

    can this possibly still be the sub blocking? I was averaging 20mg+ a day

    wish i could know for sure.
    Last edited by HicksvilleNY; 09-14-2008 at 09:13 AM.

  10. #10
    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in.I think it is a tolerance issue.Your tolerance to vicodin is really high now.So yes ,it is wd from the sub.It would have been better to taper way down before going back to the vic.8mg of sub is equal to about 100 or more mg of hydrocodone..vic......This wd is likely to last for a while ..Wish I could help you more.....here is the link for conversion...maybe others will be able to tell you what to do next.This is only my opinion...Just hate to see you suffer.Since it has a ceiling effect you are not feeling the same "buzz" but never the less the drug is still there in the suboxone..

    http://www.medcalc.com/narcotics.html
    Last edited by musicman48; 09-14-2008 at 11:29 AM.

  11. #11
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    wondering if it would just be better to wait 24 and go back to the sub.... this sucks

  12. #12
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    so i would have to take 100-200 mg of vic to conteract the sub after 6 days?


    i wonder what the sub concentration in me is after 136 hours?

    i'm guessing 2-4

  13. #13
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    what ever it is its kicking my ass, having a lot of trouble on day 7

    bad wds, the vics are hardly touching it and only for 3-4 hours,
    i'm praying tomorrow is better as i need to work

    live and learn

  14. #14
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    not sure what happened today, but it was very bad, anxiety, dizzy, cloudy head,panic, restlessness.

    beginning to think that what i did was very stupid,

    i'm at 158 hours and still having trouble with the blocking/tolerance aspect.

    the last hour or so seems maybe a little better.

    maybe its the last bit of the bup leaving my receptors that is causing the extreme symptoms, not sure but i was very afraid earlier as i am alone with this except for 2 long distance friends i met here,

  15. #15
    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    If I were you , If the symptons continue call your Dr that is doing the surgery.There are lots of people on suboxone who have to have surgery.The surgeon needs to know if your body is full of suboxone or opiates anyway.Not telling him coud be dangerous....Lots of people think they can take sub for a while to lower their tolerance to their opiate of choice and switch back.It does not work like that.You are right this was a mistake in my opinion.Good luck to you.Tapering off suboxone is the only way to go.God bless.

  16. #16
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    should i just cut my losses and go back on the sub?

    btw i did talk to the dr that is doing the surgery, he said he would feel better about it if i was off the sub
    Last edited by HicksvilleNY; 09-14-2008 at 06:44 PM.

  17. #17
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    i don't think i can take it anymore the vicodin is making me sick, its not doing anything to make me comfortable even after one solid week.

    i last took a vic at 6 am today and if this don't help me thats it i'm done, i had to call in work today as i feel very bad. i will go back on the sub this afternoon sometime when the wds set in again

    you would think after 168 hours i would be past it but its getting worse

  18. #18
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    why is the vicodin making me feel worse?

    how could the sub still be blocking?

    its been over a week?

    this was a very bad idea,,,,,,,,to anyone who wonders about trying this after being on 16-20mg a day of sub for any extended period of time,, its not worth it. don't do it, its not that easy at all,


    my last dose of sub was 173 hours ago and i'm still having a very bad time of it, i repeat very bad,,, i don't want to scare anyone , but this is what happened with me
    Last edited by HicksvilleNY; 09-15-2008 at 10:54 AM.

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