[DxMcFar]

I have 3 herniated disks in my back. I am on disabilities right now. There is a major difference between the pain before I take my pills in the morning and 30 minutes after I take my pills in the morning. When I wake up it hurts to walk, every morning. After awhile once a dose of 60-80mg of oxycodone depending on my pain level my pain goes away. Not only does the pain go away but I seem to have sort of a mental calm down when I take the pills. But I am 100% sure they help. My doctor had me sign a drug contract agreeing to certain stipulations of receiving my prescription. I only go to one doctor for my pain meds, and my cortisone shots are done thru a separate doctor. I have tried physical therapy and the cortisone shots and nothing seems to give me a long term relief. In fact physical therapy practically disabled me to the point to where I was completely useless even after my pills (then the doctor raised my dosage) I am not sure if I am addicted or not. I depend on these to live from day to day and thats addiction in my eyes but if I did not have them I would be in a ton of pain all the time. I have had the MRI's and this that and the other thing and I truly have a very bad back. Does anyone have suggestions on what to try next? I feel desperate for a real resolution to my back problems, I feel like I could give up the pills the day my back doesn't hurt like it does.

[Robert_325]

You've basically got two choices. Either you get your back repaired or deal with the pain meds and the dependency that goes with that choice. What is being done about fixing the real problem?

You're talking a lot about pain management drugs, but what about fixing the problems in your back? Has anyone said anything about making you better rather than just slamming drugs down you? God bless.

[Panic492]

I am fairly sure you are physically dependent on the meds. My advice is to find a great interventional pain management physician. There may be procedures other than steroid injections that may help you a ton. For example, spinal cord stimulators are wonderful for treating low back and limb pain. Best of luck!

[Businessman1]

I've just been through the herniated disk process. I call it the process because everyone I talk to seems to go through the same process (the difference being where they stop).

The process is:
1: wait and see
2: painkillers and oral steroids
3: injections with prescription for physical therapy + stronger painkillers
4: 70% of people get better on their own, the rest are faced with the choice of a life on pain meds or surgery

I have had a bad back for years. I chose surgery as I'm only 29 and can not justify accepting 50+ years of pain. I am happy to say that I am 4 weeks post -op and my back feels better than it did when I was 18.

I am now trying to get off the oxyodone which is really hard. You get addicted to that calm feeling where you don't have to deal with problems in your life.

Physical therapy to me was like giving a bullet proof vest to someone who has just been shot. It's great for prevention but it won't stop your disks pressing on the nerve. Plus, if you get someone who doesn't now what they are doing they can make you worse (as you found out).

Your choice is simple:
1. quit the oxy and live with pain
2. Keep taking oxy and accept that you need it
3. Get your back fixed

There is no wrong choice there. It's down to your quality of life. Taking painkillers doesn't make you a bad person and it's not like you're crushing Oxycontin and snorting it for a buzz. Using it for pain does not make you an addict. You will have a physical dependency though. There is no way to avoid that.

I would look into surgery. I had a microdiskectomy which has a 95% success rate. It was 1 night in hospital and you'll be walking the next day. I don't know if you can do that procedure for 3 herniated disks. I had one. It's worth asking to be referred to a surgeon to discuss your options.

[UNEEK1]

You could not have said it any more true: Physical therapy is like giving a bullet proof vest to someone who has just been shot. I have bulging discs, fractured coccyx and Degenerative Disc Disease. I don't see where physical therapy can help that. It has been 1 1/2 yrs since I fractured my coccyx and it still hurts, just not constantly. When the pain does flare up in my tailbone area, it feels like someone is sticking nails into my spine and injecting me with this warm, burning "something". It is very uncomfortable. I too became dependent on pain medication and I needed to do something. Either get on Suboxone or have surgery. I chose Suboxone. I don't see where surgery can eliminate this. It might fix it temporarily but not permanently. So now I live a life with pain and lots of Ibuprofen and a heating pad. This is what I chose.

[Businessman1]

As an FYI, the procedure for herniated disks has an 8% chance of re-herniation.

I don't know anything about surgery for a broken coccyx. Sounds like real a pain the ass.

[UNEEK1]

Uh, you could say that...

[Medicindian]

I am new to this forum thing and am not even sure if I'm putting this on the right thread but here goes. I suffer from FBSS (failed back surgery syndrome). I have had 4 lumbar surgeries, one of which was to fix a staph infection I got from the previous surgery ( the staph one was REALLY bad), and my last one was a multi-level fusion, which was the worst. All of these failed to cure my back pain, including some other procedures like radio-frequency and too many types of injections to remember. Consequently, I have been on Oxycontin and Oxycodone (for breakthrough) roughly the last 5 years and several other opioids before the surgeries. Nothing ever takes ALL the pain away but the meds do help a bunch and allow me to live a relatively normal life. No, I can't snow or water ski or ride horses anymore and I really miss those things, but I'm not bedridden from pain.

Here's the problem, and I want to know if anyone else has experienced any of this from being on oxys in a similar situation: I have started having joint pain (feet, knees, elbows and especially neck) without swelling, a heaviness in my chest, and a general malaise of just plain feeling like ******** all the time. This has been going on for about the last 3 months. Opioids have never made me feel anything like this before, and at first I thought it could be from many different things. But some of those things I eliminated from my diet (splenda, gluten and caffiene) and I am not overweight and I walk 2 miles, 3X a week. (sitting or standing in one place kills my back, but not too bad walking) I live on a farm with chickens and goats, but none of the diseases you can catch from those critters have these symptoms. A few years ago I also had a heart cath because of pain in my chest and it turned out to be acid reflux, even though I never had heartburn. I take protonix for that.

After much research online I found that <1% of patients taking oxy (either form-short or long acting) had arthralgia and malaise. I thought, yes, leave it to me to develop rare side effects from the one thing I can't manage without! I suppose there is a chance I have some weird long-lived virus or maybe cancer of some sort, but I AM on a pretty high dose of the pain meds (315 mg. total of Oxycodone and 40 mg. of Oxycontin 3X a day) and usually the simplest reason is the correct one. Have I developed a sensitivity? I've also been reading about Suboxone and Subutex, thinking maybe I should switch to that, but since those are also opioids wouldn't they produce these same symptoms? Also, everything I've read about subs here in these forums scares the ******** out of me--what if I'm in so much pain that the subs can't control it and I can't reverse it?

To anyone who is thinking about it: PLEASE do not tell me how terrible it is for me to be on so much oxy....do you think I don't know how dependent I am and that I wouldn't do something different if I could? There is such a stigma attached to practically any of the opioids, people automatically assume drug abuse. But I know there are folks out there in situations like mine and personally, I'd rather be addicted than in uncontrolled pain! My doc and I are going to try weaning me down some soon, but I need to know if I'm right about these weird side effects I'm having because if other people have experienced similar things, then I may need to seriously reconsider what drug(s) I am going to have to be on. At this point just taking less of the same thing may not make the symptoms disappear. And they are miserable enough that I don't want to live with them. Peace, happiness and NO PAIN to you all!

[melinda7.5]

Hi Medicindian
Don't worry know one here will judge you, we have all been there and were pretty nice people here.
I have DDD and fibromyalgia and i took oxycontin and percs for about three years.
the joint pain could be from the pills it does that to a lot more than 1% of people. but have you ever been checked for fibro, that can cause joint pain and malaise,
When I was on my pills I was addicted to them pretty bad.so they made me feel that way but it was because my body just kept wanting more and I was going into w/d so my body would just start hurting...

If you could get off the pills for awhile you could reassess things and see if it was the pills or something else, and you could do the subs to help you get there.
Let us know how your doing...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[Medicindian]

Hey Melinda7.5,
Thank you for your compassionate post. Could you please tell me how you got off your pain meds and if you used suboxone or subutex, how your experience went? I have heard everything from it's a miracle drug to a catch-22 nightmare. Also, is there a specific test for fibro? About 15 years ago a dr. thought I had it but at that time it was a very vague deal.
I just read about a revolutionary technique for ARTHROSCOPIC back surgery at the Bonati Institute in Florida. They claim to be able to fix even failed open back surgeries like mine. Has anyone out there tried it or even know of anyone who has? It sounds too good to be true...I swore I'd never let anyone cut on my back again. They have outstanding recovery statistics though and I sure would like to hear from someone who's used them!

[melinda7.5]

Hi Medicindian

When I decided to stop all my pills I didn't know about subs so I did it the old fashion way ... It was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.
I have pain so I had to deal with that and the w/d pain.but to make a long story short, I quit my oxycontin because I never took it the right way so it was like taking 20 perc's at a time...and then got some vic's and started taking about 20 ten mg a day till I got stable...then I started to taper off of those it took me a long time and when I was down to 2 five mg a day I found this site and with the help of the people on here I was able to stop and have been clean now for a year, I still deal with pain from my back and the fibro but it's a lot easer for me than being addicted to all of the drugs,It was costing me a fortune...
I went to a fibro specialist and he did some pressure test on me and talk to me for an hour...we both new I had it,but there are no blood test for it yet.

The reason I suggested the subs for you is because your in a lot of pain and I didn't know what you are ready to endure...
If you do the subs have Robert on this forum tell you how much to take and how to get off he knows more about it than most doctors do...

I'm sorry I don't know about the back surgery, I hope someone will read this that has had that done...

Take care of yourself and talk soon, Melinda

[Medicindian]

To DXMcFar: I know exactly how you feel--if I could find a cure for pain, I'd throw my drugs away. Well, it's not THAT simple--too bad it's not!! But if you are really trying to find a way to fix what's wrong with your back, I would just advise NOT to have any traditional "open" back surgery. That is just my opinion from my personal experience and that of my mother also. Between the 2 of us we have had 10 open back surgeries and neither one any better for it but have had lots of additional suffering. And we have both had staph infections from the same doc and hospital--that's scary. Maybe you should check online into that Bonati Institute that does the arthroscopic back surgeries--they say they have an over 90% COMPLETE SUCCESS rate (from all sorts of problems) and open back surgeries have somewhere in the neighborhood of an 80% FAILURE rate. Yes, I know that means there are 20% successes, but those are terrible odds and I SO wish I had never had any! Like Robert325 told you, yes you are physically dependent on the oxy but that's what happens when you take opioids. Good luck to you and let me know if you find anyone who has tried the Bonati way. Even though I swore never to let anyone cut on my back again, it's hard not to get my hopes up when something that really looks promising comes along.

Hi Melinda7.5--The reason I'm so scared of w/d and pain is because I too went through total cold turkey once and OMG it was the hardest, most awful thing I have ever experianced, and I promised myself I would never get myself into that situation again, EVER. After about 2 years after the 3rd of my back surgeries I had taken a vacation to the Yucatan Gulf and had gotten stung all over my body by small jellyfish. My ankles swelled up like elephantitis and I was even in more pain plus from my still screwed-up back. I went to a Mexican dr. but he wouldn't do anything for me and as I was determined not to let this ruin my special trip, I took extra of my oxys and then I ran out early, right when I got home. I guess I thought my dr. back home would understand but he didn't and I was forced into severe w/d's. I was on about 320 mg. of short acting oxy daily and had been for a few years, so this was REALLY bad and I can't believe how stupid I'd been. I was sick as a dog for 2 weeks, felt awful for months, and it took about 6 months for me to get back to any semblance of feeling normal. The only good news was that I was off pain meds. The bad news was 2 years after that, I took a long car trip that somehow messed up my back even more, but my pain was too much and I had to start on meds again. Then the whole ugly thing began again: more pain, more drugs, more pain, more guinea-pigging me with procedures, and then a dr. talked me into letting him fuse L3-L5. He really thought it would help. My back is worse than ever, but I made some choices I can't take back. Hindsight is certainly 20-20; talk about gun shy!--about surgery and w/ds. I'm not ready or willing to endure a bunch more suffering of any kind besides what I have day to day with pain.

Well, that was a longer story than I'd planned, but sometimes it helps just to unload the frustration on a willing ear. Thanks for letting me dump on you.

[Medicindian]

Hi again Melinda7.5--I also meant to say CONGRATULATIONS and how GREAT it is that you've got a year clean. Way 2 B!!

[melinda7.5]

Hi Medicindian
Oh I have been in that spot to many times...I would always over take my pills and run out...LOL and one of the time I tried to quit I went cold turkey YIKES...LOL It took me a few times to finally quit but I just kept practicing and I made it so thank you for the congratts...one thing that is scary for me right now is I'm going in for surgery on Friday and I will need to have some pain meds while I'm in the hospital, I told my doctor about about my addiction but I don't think I will have any problems...

I'm surprised the Mexican doctor did not give you anything I always hear you can get anything down there...
That must have been awful...

I swear I understand about the back pain and my sister has had so many back surgery's I cant count them and her back is worse now than before...

Any time you need to talk I'm always around...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[Cats Meow]

Very few people are better off after spinal surgery, like the other poster said, most people's backs get better over time, mine sure did and I couldn't imagine it getting any worse. Before anyone consents to surgery (of course there are exceptions) there's nothing wrong with running the gamut of opioid therapy, then detoxing and reassessing pain levels, after long term opioid therapy it does take 6 months off opes to get a true assessment of true pain (and not just PAWS), and you'll be surprised how much better off you'll be. Backs can get better over time, many people have herniations, some don't even know it, I've heard it said that it's a normal abnormality, sometimes you'll have a little bit of pain but not enough to treat it with drugs or surgery and you'll find you can function at a higher level then you did while on pain meds. Remember, pain meds have a phenomena of actually causing you to feel more pain, it lowers the pain threshold.
Hope this helps
Cats

[Businessman1]

I would talk to a good surgeon and find out about your options before making a decision.

All I know is that everyone had advice for me and most of it was wrong. There are multiple types of back surgery as well as other treatment options. I had a bad back for ten years and I'm so glad I finally got it fixed. As I said, my surgery had a 90%+ success rate. My surgeon was wonderful, there are tons of bad ones too. I also have a few friends who had the same procedure and are still pain free 5-10 years later. I got really angry from all the conflicting advice.

Most stats are made up. The one I believe is that if it hasn't gotten better after 6 months of non-surgical treatment, it probably never will.

Talk to a few docs and make up your own mind. I don't know how old you are but I knew for me at the age of 30, i wasn't prepared to spend the rest of my life in pain.

[mickey07]

I had a 5 level lumbar fusion in 2007. In addition to all the titanium strips and screws, the surgeon harvested a lot of bone from my hip to create grafts. I do not have a lot of "back pain", but have really significant pain (7-8 on a 10 scale) from my hip. The only relief I get from that pain is from Oxy. I went to my primary care physician several months after the surgery and discussed the pain issues. I also discussed it with my surgeon. They both concur that dealing with chronic pain requires medication. I have a prescription for Oxycodone which is written for a 4 tabs per day for 30 days form. I have to renew it every month. I do not necessarily have to use any on a given day, but usually need at least one and often all 4. I am very concerned about addiction and discussed this with both docs. Their approach is that there is significant difference between someone who is addicted to a drug without a pain issue and a person who is in pain that has to use it to function. I still fight having to take that tablet, but understand that there is sometimes no alternative. I hope you can feel comfortable that your use of a pain med is because you absolutely HAVE to have it and not because you have an addiction.

[Gonnabeatthis]

Originally Posted by Medicindian

I am new to this forum thing and am not even sure if I'm putting this on the right thread but here goes. I suffer from FBSS (failed back surgery syndrome). I have had 4 lumbar surgeries, one of which was to fix a staph infection I got from the previous surgery ( the staph one was REALLY bad), and my last one was a multi-level fusion, which was the worst. All of these failed to cure my back pain, including some other procedures like radio-frequency and too many types of injections to remember. Consequently, I have been on Oxycontin and Oxycodone (for breakthrough) roughly the last 5 years and several other opioids before the surgeries. Nothing ever takes ALL the pain away but the meds do help a bunch and allow me to live a relatively normal life. No, I can't snow or water ski or ride horses anymore and I really miss those things, but I'm not bedridden from pain.

Here's the problem, and I want to know if anyone else has experienced any of this from being on oxys in a similar situation: I have started having joint pain (feet, knees, elbows and especially neck) without swelling, a heaviness in my chest, and a general malaise of just plain feeling like ******** all the time. This has been going on for about the last 3 months. Opioids have never made me feel anything like this before, and at first I thought it could be from many different things. But some of those things I eliminated from my diet (splenda, gluten and caffiene) and I am not overweight and I walk 2 miles, 3X a week. (sitting or standing in one place kills my back, but not too bad walking) I live on a farm with chickens and goats, but none of the diseases you can catch from those critters have these symptoms. A few years ago I also had a heart cath because of pain in my chest and it turned out to be acid reflux, even though I never had heartburn. I take protonix for that.

After much research online I found that <1% of patients taking oxy (either form-short or long acting) had arthralgia and malaise. I thought, yes, leave it to me to develop rare side effects from the one thing I can't manage without! I suppose there is a chance I have some weird long-lived virus or maybe cancer of some sort, but I AM on a pretty high dose of the pain meds (315 mg. total of Oxycodone and 40 mg. of Oxycontin 3X a day) and usually the simplest reason is the correct one. Have I developed a sensitivity? I've also been reading about Suboxone and Subutex, thinking maybe I should switch to that, but since those are also opioids wouldn't they produce these same symptoms? Also, everything I've read about subs here in these forums scares the ******** out of me--what if I'm in so much pain that the subs can't control it and I can't reverse it?

To anyone who is thinking about it: PLEASE do not tell me how terrible it is for me to be on so much oxy....do you think I don't know how dependent I am and that I wouldn't do something different if I could? There is such a stigma attached to practically any of the opioids, people automatically assume drug abuse. But I know there are folks out there in situations like mine and personally, I'd rather be addicted than in uncontrolled pain! My doc and I are going to try weaning me down some soon, but I need to know if I'm right about these weird side effects I'm having because if other people have experienced similar things, then I may need to seriously reconsider what drug(s) I am going to have to be on. At this point just taking less of the same thing may not make the symptoms disappear. And they are miserable enough that I don't want to live with them. Peace, happiness and NO PAIN to you all!

I'm on day 14 of no meds after going cold turkey and yes I was very afraid by what I have read on here from other people. I was on vics 7.5's for the past 13 years after having 3 back surgery's The more your body gets use to it the more you need to take until one day it's way out of control. I was taking like 20 a day and then I would panic when I could go through 120 pills in 7 days. At one point my doctor thought I was selling them. There's NO WAY I would EVER sell my pills because I was hooked on them. I NEVER to the med to get high just to help deal with the pain. But I needed to stop before my children was without a father. I find that my mind is alot sharper and I don't have to live in a haze all the time. Do I still hurt oh yeah. Do I still think about getting some more ahh yeah but then I try and take my mind off it. I'm not a preacher and I'm not trying to bring church to the form but what has worked for me is I prayed about it and just gave it to the lord and he hasn't made me go through the w/d's. The only problem I've had is not begin able to sleep very well but I'll take that anyday over what alot of people have to deal with so I'm not complaining at all. If you or anyone else whats to get off this meds just give it to the lord and totally believe that he will make you feel much better but it won't do you any good if you don't totally put it in his hands. Good Luck to you...