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12 days off Suboxone after 3 years then used Oxycodone and
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    WDDoc is offline Junior Member
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    Default 12 days off Suboxone after 3 years then used Oxycodone and

    okay so to say the least this was stupid but here we go: Was on Subs for 3 years , prior to that Dilauded,Oxys,everything that came in a pill bottle that said controlled substance, now i am 12 days out from suboxone (reduced by 2 mg every 3-5 days) depending on tolerance of pain and WDs-but still very severely diphoretic with a lot of leg pain-. Day 13 and 14 took 10mg percocet five times over 36-48 hours for severe pain. Will this cause a total reset? Should I just naltrexone the hell out of myself to break the basement and make myself really sick with the hope that I will get better faster and cause my normal opioid physiology ad residuum if i WDs happen from the 48 hours of oxys how long will it last? 3-5 days?
    Last edited by WDDoc; 11-10-2008 at 08:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WDDoc View Post
    okay so to say the least this was stupid but here we go: Was on Subs for 3 years , prior to that Dilauded,Oxys,everything that came in a pill bottle that said controlled substance, now i am 12 days out from suboxone (reduced by 2 mg every 3-5 days) depending on tolerance of pain and WDs-but still very severely diphoretic with a lot of leg pain-. Day 13 and 14 took 10mg percocet five times over 36-48 hours for severe pain. Will this cause a total reset? Should I just naltrexone the hell out of myself to break the basement and make myself really sick with the hope that I will get better faster and cause my normal opioid physiology ad residuum if i WDs happen from the 48 hours of oxys how long will it last? 3-5 days?


    Something similar happened to me only it was from a BAD tooth problem. I had several years clean when it happened. I beat myself up over it and called myself a dumb____. But I didn't go out and search for a dealer on the street. I had really bad pain and I know that I was justified in doing what I did. I wasn't justified in taking more than I really needed but I stopped it very quickly and today wouldn't even consider it a relapse. Get a grip on this deal and if you have any pills left FLUSH THEM DOWN THE DRAIN. No way you are addicted again if that is really all you did and it only lasted 48 hours. DO NOT do anything to yourself with naltrexone. Just don't take anymore goofy percocets. You haven't lost anything from that short bout with the percs but your pride. Just move on. ONLY DONT TAKE ANYMORE PERCS. I am not trying to minimize what you did but keep things in perspective here. Even as hardcore as NA is about using medications while in recovery I believe its on page 99 of the Basic Text that talks about us needing pain medication at times while we are in recovery. If it ever happens again for me I know that next time I will give my meds to someone else to dispense them for me so I won't blow it as I am a for real pleasure seeker. Just move on and forget it. Think about your next day clean. God bless.

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    WDDoc is offline Junior Member
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    So you dont think that even though i was still in slight WDs from the suboxone after 12 days off the suboxone, that by taking what i took , and then abruptly stopping as I have, that I will be addicted. I am about 19 hours out right now from the last 10 mg percocet and getting a little squarally and slight sweats. the doseing is right though. thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I found that a lot of people in those rooms were still on suboxone or methadone saying they were clean. I have nothing to say about this because i am the one waiting for the paper with the numbers know what i mean? I am just curious about how this works. What can i do to stop this horrible sweating-all jokes aside i wear very strong Anti persp, and I am like a waterfall under my arms. Thank you and God Bless your for your help.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Give yourself another 10-12 hours with nothing so that you are in bad w/d. You didn't jump off the subs properly I can tell you that. You need a slower taper. I can help you with that.

    Take the suboxone as I suggested but wait a little longer so you don't go into precipitated w/d. Then take 4mg. If that doesn't stop the w/d in an hour take another 4mg. That should do it. Than let's talk about doing a taper off the suboxone properly so you are not inclined to get back on the percocets. God bless.

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    I am and have always had like a "jump " in my chest when ever I withdraw. Like an electrical shock-any Idea what the hell that is-i mean they did a million tests and the only consistency is i get it in acute and post acute withdrawal. So you think i should go back on the subs? Tminus 21 hours from percocett

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    Quote Originally Posted by WDDoc View Post
    I am and have always had like a "jump " in my chest when ever I withdraw. Like an electrical shock-any Idea what the hell that is-i mean they did a million tests and the only consistency is i get it in acute and post acute withdrawal. So you think i should go back on the subs? Tminus 21 hours from percocett



    I would give it a little longer until you have more of the common w/d symptoms and then start back. You know the sweating, chills, shakes, etc.

    The shock you describe is called exactly the way you describe it. It's called electric shock syndrome. I have had it so bad it would nearly lift me off the floor. It can hurt too. Beleive me I sympathize with that feeling. It sucks big time. Feels like someone just sticks us with a live electric cord. Its a drag. Hang in there. God bless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I would give it a little longer until you have more of the common w/d symptoms and then start back. You know the sweating, chills, shakes, etc.

    The shock you describe is called exactly the way you describe it. It's called electric shock syndrome. I have had it so bad it would nearly lift me off the floor. It can hurt too. Beleive me I sympathize with that feeling. It sucks big time. Feels like someone just sticks us with a live electric cord. Its a drag. Hang in there. God bless.
    I am in absolute Awe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........I have been to so many docs..so many hospitals... and no one can figure out what the jolt it but you do WTF? hahahaha life works in funny ways.well i am feeling quite a bit better. droping 10 mgs of valium at night for sleep but still wake up at like 5 am(go to sleep at 1030) and I feel like I drank 8 cups of coffie just without all the energy and good buzz feeling. Actually ate like 10 egg whites for breakfast and held it down. I feel awesom compared to when i last posted-scared i am being too much of an optomist. I took the percs all sunday-today is wed so do you think if i had the WDs it would be gone? I would love to go back on the subs but i am this far out do you think i should bother? What about the naltrexone now? if i take that wont it help make my opiate receptors more receptive to natural endorphens and enkephlins? You know-you just talking back and forth with me like this-some one else giving a ********************-has made a world of a difference you know? \Thank you for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WDDoc View Post
    I am in absolute Awe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........I have been to so many docs..so many hospitals... and no one can figure out what the jolt it but you do WTF? hahahaha life works in funny ways. well i am feeling quite a bit better. droping 10 mgs of valium at night for sleep but still wake up at like 5 am(go to sleep at 1030) and I feel like I drank 8 cups of coffie just without all the energy and good buzz feeling. Actually ate like 10 egg whites for breakfast and held it down. I feel awesom compared to when i last posted-scared i am being too much of an optomist. I took the percs all sunday-today is wed so do you think if i had the WDs it would be gone? I would love to go back on the subs but i am this far out do you think i should bother? What about the naltrexone now? if i take that wont it help make my opiate receptors more receptive to natural endorphens and enkephlins? You know-you just talking back and forth with me like this-some one else giving a ********************-has made a world of a difference you know? \Thank you for that.



    I don't like to bad mouth any drs. Sometimes I can't help myself however. Drs who work with addicts, especially those who take benzos and/or antidepressants should be familiar with the electric shocks. Electric shock is very common for those people. It does happen some with opiates but it's more common with the benzos and AD. I don't know that my terminology is medically correct. Electric shock syndrome is what I have always called this and my psych dr knows exactly what it is when I refer to it as such.

    I wouldn't get into the naltrexone at least not at this point if it were me. I just don't think it's necessary in your situation from what you have shared. We always look to another medication for answers and that is what landed me in trouble with RX drugs. I would ride this out alone but that is my opinion only. The best thing for endorphine production is exercise. Not long runs but just getting out and taking a good walk does wonders. Our bodies will do a lot naturally if we give it a chance. It's used to us cramming down drugs so it takes a little time for the body to re-adjust. But if you give it a chance you will come around on your own I am confident.

    It's a personal call on whether or not to go back on the subs. If you are going to relapse if you stop them then I would start back no question. If you can do this without them I would take advantage of the days you have under your belt and just go for it. Only you know how emotionally stable and strong you are. Remember that you have been on the suboxone for a long time. It would likely be a pretty tough detox in all reality. I insist on telling the truth and not making things out to be rosey when they are not. So you have to make the call. I just don't know you well enough to decide that for you. If you decide you want to get off the subs but find stopping cold to be too difficult I will be happy to help you with a taper plan. I do it every day here and we are usually pretty successful as you can see by reading the threads.

    I recommend getting into a recovery program regardless of which route you choose. That will help you maintain your clean time. It's really pretty simple getting clean. You just don't use for a week or two and it's done. That is relatively easy. It's staying clean that saves our lives and that is a miracle when an addict is able to pull that off. Talking with someone like you described does make a huge difference for us staying clean. It really does help. That is what the philosophy of recovery is based on ... one addict helping another. It really does work if all parties are honest with each other and don't pull punches. We need to be held accountable for our choices and it's a priceless therapeutic benefit having someone who understands what is happening from first hand experience right there helping you along. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 11-12-2008 at 12:03 PM.

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    I cant say enough about how helpful you have been. I just cant belive my doc who has been working with addicts for like 20 years could not tell me aabout this shock thing. He just kept scrtaching his head. I do not want to go back on the subs but would like to. It is coming up on 3 weeks that i have been off the subs if you -the day on percs i guess its like 2 weeks and a few days. I have been taking drysol for the sweats, its this crazy antipersp. The valum sucks, just makes me tired. God if only benzos did for me what opiates did with the same afinity for me to get addicted to them. I know that sounds dumb because of how addicting benzos are and how much more severe the WDs can be, but i just dont like them at all. Guess I got spoiled by the opiates. you said something. That you are a real pleasure seeker-sort of in response to my pain comment. Please dont get me wrong-being so high i feel like i am gona puke and my skin starts to itch is a godsend because i dont give a damn about how horrible my life is because of what i am taking. IDK. just want to accurately rep myself. I feel so damn listless though. And I am used to hitting the gym-i have not done so in a month. I used to consider myself a bodybuilder-now i just look like a fat slob and want to get back into the gym but am scared of the hyperalgesia-my bodys lack of an abilty to cope with the pain. I have all these bllod pressure osilations. Man it hurts when my heart beats. its so weird. But I take some suboxone or percocet or dilauded or whate the hell ever and my heart does not hurt, my surgery pain is gone, my bp is 120/80 insted of like 175/110 and then i am like is a few hours of bliss worth eternal torture aand pain? Because i sit here watching shows on TV about opiates(god is that ridiculous?) I start wishing i had some more so i could not feel pain and feel pleasure. Well now I guess you know how sick i really am. haha. Now maybe i can get my members card LOL still clean-still feel like horse dung-and most of all-still feel like doing nothing but using....but not.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I just went ahead and got my pleasure seeker membership card renewed for life so I wouldn't have to worry about it renewing it every year.

    I don't crave any drugs anymore but that pleasure seeker deal is one of the main things that actually caused me to abuse RX meds.

    Taking the pills was just a result of my pleasure seeking. So I try to deal with THAT today and not taking the pills takes care of itself. LOL

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    WDDoc is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I just went ahead and got my pleasure seeker membership card renewed for life so I wouldn't have to worry about it renewing it every year.

    I don't crave any drugs anymore but that pleasure seeker deal is one of the main things that actually caused me to abuse RX meds.

    Taking the pills was just a result of my pleasure seeking. So I try to deal with THAT today and not taking the pills takes care of itself. LOL
    Man i am still dragging A$$...caffine a good idea..I keep bugguing you about the naltrexon-whats your take on it at this point. I mean I get a little cold sweat around my neck in the middle of the night but aside from that I AM JUST DRAGGING A$$ see my post about being a LAZY DRUG ADDICT I HAVE NEVER BEEN LIKE THIS.haha...I have never been sober this long

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    Quote Originally Posted by WDDoc View Post
    Man i am still dragging A$$...caffine a good idea..I keep bugguing you about the naltrexon-whats your take on it at this point. I mean I get a little cold sweat around my neck in the middle of the night but aside from that I AM JUST DRAGGING A$$ see my post about being a LAZY DRUG ADDICT I HAVE NEVER BEEN LIKE THIS.haha...I have never been sober this long




    Caffiene won't hurt anything but exercise is best like a good walk around the block. Do that regularly and it will change the way you feel entirely.

    You keep staying on this naltrexone thing. Why??? Tell me what about naltrexone makes you think that you need it at this point. What dose are you going to take and what is it going to do for you? I mean it's your body and your call. I am just curious why you are so dead set on naltrexone and where your information comes from. When you explain then I can respond.

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    WDDoc is offline Junior Member
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    Default why the nalterxone

    As I understand things-and I do tend to over complicate them-but here i go. Down regulated opiate receptors, ergo receptors that have a decreased receptivity to bind with the lock and key mechanism of the natural endorphins and enkephilins in the brain that would otherwise be working which causes much of the dysfunction and/or displeasure one experiences during paws and acute withdrawal. The kappa ,delta ,and Mu receptors in the brain specifically. This drug works on producing an inhibitory effect on the Kappa receptor which is responsible for negative emotions. Basically it inhibits feelings of negativity. Once the drug is removed their has been speculation that once it is removed that a rebound effect will occur and Kappa receptors will flood the brain with negitive emotions but this has never been seen to happen and it is suggested that is because the Mu and Delta receptors which are blocked-when up blocked have such a high rate of receptivity that one feels the rush of the flush of endorphins and enkephlins, not because there is more, but just because of sensitivity of the receptors. Thus the negitive feelings effect is minimal if at all but has never been reported. I was only thinking of 1 mg dose every two hours and then up to 2 mg then eight, then after a few days abruptly stop and feel better. I mean does it not make sense that if you increase the affinity of the receptor to bind that much like a exogenous opiate down regulates a receptors affinity a opiate antagonist would up regulate it via the negative feed back? This is coming from studies both done by and researched by my physcian and a bit of my own research into my old college books.

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    I just wanted to see your reply. You mention your old college books. Unless you write a whole lot better than I do it sounds like that came right out of one of them. That is okay though!

    There can be a purpose in naltrexone therapy. I think that you are talking about way too high of a dose though IF you decided to go forward with the naltrexone. I am not a dr and can't tell you what to do on this. I have my opinion but I can't tell you whether or not to take a medication. I will just say that addicts most always want to fix what is wrong with another medication and leave it there.

    Go to google and do a search on "low dose naltrexone therapy." Check it out .. there is actually some good information. Don't bother with all the gobbledygook, just get to the part that is relevant to your situation. It's used for so many different things that don't apply to you.

    I will be gone for a while but will be back this afternoon. Will check back then. God bless.

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    Cross my heart it was not a quote but thanks for the compliments-I was premed in college.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WDDoc View Post
    Cross my heart it was not a quote but thanks for the compliments-I was premed in college.

    I am impressed but if you are that smart why the hell are you screwing around with RX opiates????? We are almost all pre-something. Me too! I am retired pre-billionaire I just haven't quite arrived yet. I am currently just a wise guy though.

    The low dose naltrexone might help you. IT'S POSSIBLE ... I say that cautiously. I have talked with a COUPLE people on the forum who have used it successfully for opiate detox problems. Look up a gentleman who posted on here named Better Off Dead. He and I had some intense discussion here and he gave me a bunch of great web links on the subject. If you go to Featured Conditions and back track until June of this year you will find the thread. I just looked at it ... title is "Post Suboxone LDN". It's some very good information. Sure you will enjoy the read. God bless.

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    Default Help-severe nuropothy pain

    Did not take the naltrex-But sh!T I am in severe severe severe pain and don't know what to do. I am so screwed...this is why i have the opiate problem-yeah i like getting high but i like not being in pain a whole lot more. Pumping myself full of naproxin and ibuprofen and crossing my fingers with a ton of Valium in btw them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so naususe and dizzy and feel like i am gonna pass out and my pressure is through the roof and I am tachy.....And worst of all is that now that i have come out and said that i have a problem to my wife she is not the most sympathetic person in the world! Fu#K all this clean time and now what. I hate this Nuropothy ********************. how do you choose between life and non life with out pain? Is either truely life? I know I sound nuts...gotta go lay down. Hurts so bad I can feel it in my balls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WDDoc View Post
    Did not take the naltrex-But sh!T I am in severe severe severe pain and don't know what to do. I am so screwed...this is why i have the opiate problem-yeah i like getting high but i like not being in pain a whole lot more. Pumping myself full of naproxin and ibuprofen and crossing my fingers with a ton of Valium in btw them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so naususe and dizzy and feel like i am gonna pass out and my pressure is through the roof and I am tachy.....And worst of all is that now that i have come out and said that i have a problem to my wife she is not the most sympathetic person in the world! Fu#K all this clean time and now what. I hate this Nuropothy ********************. how do you choose between life and non life with out pain? Is either truely life? I know I sound nuts...gotta go lay down. Hurts so bad I can feel it in my balls.




    Now you are talking about neuropathy? I don't remember you mentioning that previously. If you did I'm sorry I just don't recall that before. That actually makes this a different situation than just stopping the opiates.

    Tell me more about the illness if you would. It's not connected to diabetes or another disease creating a secondary situation? Share a little more with me if you can. I am quite familiar with the condition ... have a fair amount of knowledge in that area. Let me know the most important details and perhaps I can make some helpful suggestions and not just be sarcastic like I was in the last post. Hope you know I was just teasing ... certainly wouldn't try to be insulting. I think you know that.

    I will watch for your reply. I am considering going to an NA meeting tonight so if I don't answer immediately when you reply I will check the forum out when I come in. I look forward to hearing about this new info. Maybe we can come up with something. Never can tell ... remember I knew about the electric shocks too! I have some really goofy information stored upstairs. Will talk with you later this evening. Maybe we can figure out something useful for you. God bless.

    PS Did you check out the thread I mentioned on low dose naltrexone? Just wondering what you thought about the information on the links that were posted.

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    I had a operation in the lower right quadrant of my abdomen/groin and too much mesh was used to close the wound and I somehow developed a nuropothy in this area. I woke up literally screaming in pain because it was so bad. I am no tough guy but I am former military and have had my fair share of injuries and have always "sucked it up" and drove on-but this was different then any broken bone or anything like it. I could have gone to the hospital,they would have pumped me full of dillaudid and i would have been fine. What stops me and makes me sit in pain and seethe and piss and moan is that I know what will happen when it wears off....more more more. Pain evading pleasure seeking. I am young...well not that young. But I am broke with a family and a very strong educational background and i am young enough that I have a good chance at doing something with my life and actually giving my family a life ...but not enough time that I can jerk around on pain meds for another year and wake up from my opium induced dream only to realize that that dream was all i had. AND NO, I take no offense. The amount of effort you put in to help me is very clear and i am very great full. The million doller question is do I function better on drugs then off. Short term yes' long term no. Holding on for dear life...WTF ever that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WDDoc View Post
    I had a operation in the lower right quadrant of my abdomen/groin and too much mesh was used to close the wound and I somehow developed a nuropothy in this area. I woke up literally screaming in pain because it was so bad. I am no tough guy but I am former military and have had my fair share of injuries and have always "sucked it up" and drove on-but this was different then any broken bone or anything like it. I could have gone to the hospital,they would have pumped me full of dillaudid and i would have been fine. What stops me and makes me sit in pain and seethe and piss and moan is that I know what will happen when it wears off....more more more. Pain evading pleasure seeking. I am young...well not that young. But I am broke with a family and a very strong educational background and i am young enough that I have a good chance at doing something with my life and actually giving my family a life ...but not enough time that I can jerk around on pain meds for another year and wake up from my opium induced dream only to realize that that dream was all i had. AND NO, I take no offense. The amount of effort you put in to help me is very clear and i am very great full. The million doller question is do I function better on drugs then off. Short term yes' long term no. Holding on for dear life...WTF ever that is.


    Has the surgeon given you any kind of a prognosis for the results you describe from the surgery? That sounds like something that would leave me rather annoyed at best if it was done in error. I understand that doesn't help your pain regardless but wouldn't the dr be accountable if he/she did something wrong that has left you in pain? There is no reason why you should justifiably be going through all this if the neuropathy is due to dr error.
    Have they said what can be done to correct the problem? This does not sound like anything that is fair at all. I would think that someone should have to answer for the condition that you find yourself. God bless.

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    60mg of percs over the last 48 hours cause i was in so much pain I called my doctor and could barely speak. So tired of the roller coaster. My brain is shot and nervous systym is so dysfunctional from the pain and down regulation of my receptors that I CANT AFFORD literally to be disabled from pain and withdrawal. When you have to choose between living in a box with your family and being able to keep your home and stay on pain meds your screwed. I just dont give a Sh!t about my health anymore-I just have to function and provide a home for my family. I cant be disabled from pain and I dont have a few months to get normal even after the prob is fixed IF it is fixable. 6 and 1/2 doz in the other. Wondering if I will withdraw from this if i stop now...so the circle continues.My wife actually made the decision with me to go back on pain meds. I would rather be off the stuff and take a few months to heal and see if the hyperalgesia goes away so that maybe the nuropothy is better...but i dont have this luxury-gotta keep the lights on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WDDoc View Post
    60mg of percs over the last 48 hours cause i was in so much pain I called my doctor and could barely speak. So tired of the roller coaster. My brain is shot and nervous systym is so dysfunctional from the pain and down regulation of my receptors that I CANT AFFORD literally to be disabled from pain and withdrawal. When you have to choose between living in a box with your family and being able to keep your home and stay on pain meds your screwed. I just dont give a Sh!t about my health anymore-I just have to function and provide a home for my family. I cant be disabled from pain and I dont have a few months to get normal even after the prob is fixed IF it is fixable. 6 and 1/2 doz in the other. Wondering if I will withdraw from this if i stop now...so the circle continues.My wife actually made the decision with me to go back on pain meds. I would rather be off the stuff and take a few months to heal and see if the hyperalgesia goes away so that maybe the nuropothy is better...but i dont have this luxury-gotta keep the lights on.



    You don't have to be apologetic for needing pain medication. If you require it and that is the way it is then you have to deal with it between you and your dr. You are intelligent enough to know whether it's from the illness or from being dependent. That is no one's business here. I doubt that your w/d symptoms would be any worse than they have been so far if you stopped again after the 60mg of percocet. Let us know how you are doing. We are here if we can help. God bless.

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    You are a good person-you have probably saved more lives then you know. I am taking 2 10mg percs once a day in the early am when the pain is worst. I also do this because I get severe nightmares and really bad itches from the percs. I cant be up all night scratcing or having nightmares. I cant seem to get rid of the Cardiac shock thing. Its almost gone now that I am on the percs but ecery once in a while it will zap me on every heart beat. There is no doubt that I am addicted...its just a choice between life on drugs and no life at all. Never thought I would say that. Anyway, my doc gave me 40 percs 10mg-325 and i am awaiting my apointment with pain management. I hate seeing new docs because its like I feel like because I dont have cancer or AIDs that I have to justify my meds, unlike my doc of 3 years who knows me-we even both went to the same university. By the way my anesthesiologist was a addict and injected all my fentynal that's why i woke up moaning in pain from my operation. Herss one for you, I went like 30 miles away from home to a doc's office that was supposed to be pain management and when i got there he asked me which bone hurts? He was an ortho and paraded as a pain management doc! Wasted my time but that life. We will see how things work. I am not afraid of WD-i am afraid of my life falling apart from physical pain-but more importantly-my receptors are so fried that I need so much time to heal and no money to support such a thing. Nose back to the grind. You prob wont be hearing much from me for a while . YOU REALLY ARE AN GOOD PERSON for all your work on this site. I hope you are around when I end up in a better position .

  24. #24
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    16,689

    Default WDDoc

    Best of luck to you. Hope you make it back. I will be here God willing. God bless.

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