[Miles]

My neurosurgeon recently prescribed Ultracet for me. I have pain associated with recent lumbar fusion at L-5. When I looked up the profile of Ultracet, I read that is recommended only for a five-day therapy. Anyone know why only five days? Why can't I take it daily ad infinitum?

[mellenfan]

probably because it is used for mild pain and it is somewhat addictive if ya notice any pain relievers profile will tell you only for a short period of time or you may become dependant and do not suddenly stop taking if you have been taking for more than 5 days because you may experience withdrawals . But dont be surprised if your doctor treats you like there are no withdrawals and it is all in your head . Good Luck

[Miles]

Thank you Mellenfan. But I am confused. Addiction is a form of behavior. Behavior is not caused - it has reasons. How do drugs cause addiction any more than genitals cause sexual acts? Some drugs, when ingested (in itself, a decision), make people feel a certain way and they like to repeat that feeling. Calling that an "addiction" is a value judgement because there are many behaviors that are now called "addicitons." For example, smoking - no one called Churchill or Roosevelt an addict, yet now they would be labeled as nicotine addicts. Thus, addiction seems not to be a descriptive term, but rather a stigmatizing term which is culturally conditioned. It does not reflect a property of the drug, but rather a property of the culture. In sum, drugs cannot cause addiction.

My first "addiction," following contemporary thought, was milk. There was a time when withdrawal of milk gave me all of the symptoms that are typically described, but my parents carefully weaned me off that addiction. I am now cured and can even has a glass of milk w/o feeling that I have to have another.

Drugs are inert, inanimate objects. It may be important to differentiate between how drugs get into the body and what drugs do to the body. What drugs do to the body is relatively uncontroversial. The controversy is how do drugs get into the body. People choose to use drugs. With due respect, I would suspect that to defend the notion that drugs could cause addiction is really a political trick or gimmick to effect a particular style of social control.

[billysgirl]

If you'd ever been addicted to narcotics -- physically addictive narcotics, whether prescribed for pain or no -- then you would know what real addiction is.

I agree that it can be a subjective word, in many cases ... and often it is used instead of more accurate terms such as "emotionally dependant." But, facts are facts: sometimes, when a person is in pain, the ONLY course of treatment is narcotics. And narcotics, being derived from OPIUM (or simulated opium), are physically addictive. When a person who has used narcotics over a certain period of time tries to go off the meds, s/he will experience the PHYSICAL symptoms of withdrawal.

It is NOT the same as cocaine "addiction" or "sex addiction" -- this addiction causes a real, viable physical NEED for more of the narcotic. From heroin to Tylenol #3, when you take it for too long (there are variables, of course), simply, your body itself requires the med to function normally and properly.



billy's girl

[Miles]

Billy's Girl:

While I do not minimize the physiologic properties of "drugs," addictions are culturally conditioned stigmatizing
terms that reveal more about the culture that believes in them than any supernatural powers attributed to drugs. Once again, it is a choice you make... to be addicted or to NOT be addicted.

What sort of new, politically correct term is "emotionally dependant (sic)?" What does that mean?

[billysgirl]

quote:Originally posted by Miles

Billy's Girl:

<<addictions are culturally conditioned stigmatizing
terms that reveal more about the culture that believes in them than any supernatural powers attributed to drugs. Once again, it is a choice you make... to be addicted or to NOT be addicted.>>

What sort of new, politically correct term is "emotionally dependent?" What does that mean?>>

It's not new, and neither is it "PC." It's a common term, since probably the '70s, which means a person feels as if she can't do without drugs (i.e. marijuana, cocaine), even though the drug is not physiologically addictive.

I personally don't think the term "addiction" as commonly, albeit erroneously, used is a stigmatizing word; actually, it seems quite the opposite. If a person can blame any behavior, past, present, future on "addiction," then it tends to give that person an excuse, or a reprieve from blame.

The only people I know who attribute "supernatural" qualities to mind-altering chemicals are my in-laws, who are Navajo. They ingest peyote during spiritual rituals. There is no abuse among them (although the kids like to steal their share), and it is LEGAL for members of the Native American Church to obtain and own peyote.

I hope that helps explain the terminology of the addiction culture.

billy's girl

[Miles]

Billy's Girl:
I think many Americans ascribe supernatural powers to drugs, which are inert, inanimate objects as evidenced by many of these postings. Your point is well made about individuals assigning blame to the drug as a defelection of their own choices... to use drugs. It's a lot like the arguments against the insanity defense in criminal cases isn't it.

[liberty]

I think this went of the subject a little. This topic was specifically about ultracet and it possibly being addictive.
I respect anyone’s own opinion about addiction. The truth is it is your own perception. Before I ever had an addiction problem, especially to pain meds, I had a different perception of individuals who would get hooked. I almost looked at it as weakness on their part. Until I experienced it myself and it basically smacked me over the head like a 2x4, and I consider myself a very strong willed individual, I even work in the medical field.[8)] The truth is as we have our own opinions we can also have compassion for each other, we are here in this forum to help one another.
Back to the topic. I am just getting over a fairly serious addiction to specifically ultracet and ultram. What happened for me is that in the beginning it was masking my pain, which was wonderful. After about a month I become emotionally and psychologically dependant on it. Here I am half a year later going through incredible withdrawal symptoms.
My advice is do with it as you will. Just be strong and aware of all of the possibilities and be in control of yourself and not to let it control you. That is the key

Many Blessings
Liberty
ONE PLANET ONE TRIBE!!!

[Miles]

I am assuming that by "addiction," we are discussing the classic, quasi-physiological syndrome identified by tolerance and withdrawal. When an individual requires larger and larger doses of a substance in order to obtain the desired effect, he/she has built up a tolerance to it. Withdrawal is the body's traumatic readjustment to a drugless state. Most agonizing to the addict is an intangible feeling that something central is missing from his body and his existence.

Since tolerance and withdrawal are known through subjective reports and observations of behavior, there is no reason to think of them, and addiction, as primarily physiological phenomena.

Over the past few years, drug researchers have realized that the pattern of addiction can be generalized. Alcohol users, tobacco smokers, tranquillizer users, coffee drinkers, as well as narcotics users, may build up a tolerance and go through withdrawal, even though each of the drugs in question is chemically different from the other.

Although each drug acts differently on the body, the manifestations of tolerance and withdrawal remian the same. In trying to explain why this is so, reserchers have moved from the old concept of addiciton as a physical dependence to a concept of addiction as a psychic dependence. This new position emphasizes the experience a person has with a drug. It asks, "What does the fixation do for the addict?" It suggests that drugs do not victimize a person, but that a person uses drugs to give life a structure and to secure him/her against novelty and challenge.

Bottom line: People, including addicts, react to drugs according to their mental set and social setting. Both of these are cultural factors. The user must learn what sensations he/she is to feel and why they are to be enjoyed. Ergo, I would suggest that biochemical aspects of addiction are only half the story. Addiction is partially self-induced. It is a function of the way a person interprets his/her experience.

These are not "opinions." This is knowledge. It is troubling to read so much tripe about people not being able to use/take drugs responsibly. All drug laws, including prescription laws are paternalistic attempts by the state to protect people from themselves.

[Gracey]

Just from my own experience-Tramadol/Ultram/Ultracet-from countless studies I have read a person can become extremly uncomfortable if you stop them at once. From my own exrerience, after taking them for 2 1/2 years daily, there have been times that I ran out and had a few horrible days-would of wanted to be dead, for it was so uncomforable!!!! But I am still taking them for it is the only thing that works for my Sponylolthesis and etc back and leg problems. I do worry what it could be doing long term to body organs etc in the future. I do not think it is a bad drug but take caution with it as for taking any drug.

[liberty]

Miles, I respect your view on the addiction subject. You may be someone who can and will use this drug responsibly. Do what you feel is right.[8)]

Liberty,
ONE PLANET ONE TRIBE!!!!

[Miles]

Thank you Liberty. If given the chance by the coercive powers of the State, I think many others could do equally as well with prescription drugs. We are not truly free until we can get such drugs without having to go through an agent of the State, i.e., a physician, for a prescription. By your moniker, I am assuming you too have a strong belief in personal freedoms, although the "One Planet, One Tribe" signature is puzzling.

[liberty]

quote:Originally posted by liberty

You are welcome Miles. I definitely believe that we all have the ability to have the strength to steer our own paths. Sometimes it might get challenging but that is when I always remind myself about the phoenix rising out of the ashes, no matter what we go through even if we do get a little lost whether it is pain, addiction, depression, loss and so on, we always have the power to pick ourselves up by the boot straps with compassion for what we have been through and move on. [:I]
I also agree with what you said about personal freedom. I think of Amsterdam, where there is not to many restraints on what substances any individual puts in there bodies. They find this works because when personal responsibility and freedom is given to people they have a tenancy to abuse it less. Not always but in most cases. It is part of human nature for most people to rebel against dictation or control from another source about one's own body or life.

ONE PLANET ONE TRIBE means that even though we all may come from different beliefs and lives in this world we are all still one.

Liberty,
ONE PLANET ONE TRIBE !!!!

[pama]

HOW MANY PILLS WERE YOU TAKING A DAY? (UTRACET) TO BECOME DEPENDANT. WHAT ARE THE WITHDRAWAL SYMPYOMS? THEY DO NOT SEEM TO DO MUCH FOR ME ANYMORE. I TAKE ABOUT 4 PILLS ADAY AND PURCHASE THEM FROM THE INTERNET. I HAVE LOST SOME WEIGHT THOUGH, IS THI NORMAL?, AND WHAT DO THEY DO TO YOUR ORGANS, LONG TERM AFFECT?.