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The truth about suboxone and getting high ( you won't believe this)
  1. #1
    anonone17 is offline Junior Member
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    Default The truth about suboxone and getting high ( you won't believe this)

    Hello everyone, I have been on suboxone now for 1 year and 3 months. ABout 8 months into my sobriety i read a lot about how long i would have to stop taking the subs for to get high again. I never tried because I was told by many it would be somwehre in the range of a month! and that would make me in hell because of the sub withdrawls. Anyway last week I decided that although it is a terrible idea, I wanted to know the REAL TRUTH because i know a lot of people lie on here and tell people they won't get high to keep them from trying. Believe me I respect that and i have done the same thing many times because i believe deterring an addict from using is better than giving them a truth that will harm them. Anyway i stopped taking my suboxone for 24 hrs. and i did half an oxy 80 aka about 40mgs ( mind you i have not dont any type of opiate other than sub for 1 year 3 months) by the way I am on 16 mgs/day. To tell the truth i felt a small buzz nothing very good though just a small sense of euphoria similar to codiene. I decided not to dose the second and I waited until I had THREE DAYS OFF THE SUBOXONE and i did approxomatly 60mgs of oxycodone. Remember the only reason I am writing this is so people will know the truth and this is only for SCIENTIFIC, MEDICAL KNOWLEDGE PLEASE DON'T TRY TO GET HIGH BECAUSE OF WHAT I AM TELLING YOU! So after 3 days or approxomatly 72 hrs of no suboxone and I am 120lbs 5'7 been on it for 15 months I DID GET HIGH AS A MATTER OF FACT I GOT HIGHER THAN I'VE BEEN IN A LONG TIME. I FELT THE OXY FULL STRENGTH and honestly i thought i was not going to feel anything! BTW afterwards i went back on my sub and reset my sober time and in my opinion this was worth it because i know i needed to clear up the bs for myself if not someone else. I am sorry, i am not trying to encourage people to take a break from their sub I am just giving my experience I AM NOT SAYING THAT PEOPLE WHO SAY YOU CAN'T GET HIGH FOR 24 DAYS AFTER STOPPING SUB IS wrong! Perhaps someone could tell me why the oxy worked? I really thoiught i would not feel any effects as thats what the doc told me. maybe someone with some knowledge like dave A.K.A. MPPVT could answer this as i have always respected his opinion. maybe it's because i have a fast metabolism but i only stopped taking my 16mgs/day of sub for 3days which is just when i first started to feel w/d symptoms and i repeat, the oxycodone got me high, very high like i never took suboxone at all. I admit this was a relapse but i am confused because all along i have been told i could not get high for at least 2 weeks after stopping and this is not true at all! at least for me i felt the effects within 24hrs after my last sub dose. could someone please tell me why this has happened? i thought sub bonded to your receptors for a very long time? is it because i weigh very little? any help is appriciated!
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-30-2010 at 08:35 AM.
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    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    It's no big secret that people stop taking subs for just a short time for things like dental surgery and the pain meds work fine. No one has ever tried to hide that fact on this forum to my knowledge. I've even seen people who were on ridiculously high doses of sub switch to RX pain meds to get off the subs and then start over on the subs at a more reasonable dose. I don't agree with doing that, but it is done by some people.

    Bottom line is everyone reacts a little differently to any medication. But if you are taking subs to get off RX opiates why would you even want to test this on yourself? That makes no sense to me regardless of what the outcome might be when taking the subs.

    There are always exceptions to almost any rule. I don't think anyone here has been intentionally lying in order to keep anyone from knowing the truth about anything. I have never even seen this subject of lying to keep addicts ignorant of the truth mentioned here before. Who has been doing the lying?

    Perhaps I have not been reading all the posts? Trying to see how high we can get while taking subs surely doesn't sound like someone who is trying to get clean to me. Why even bother taking the subs at all if we have it in our minds that we can still get high when we want to and keep a stash of subs for when we need to dry out for a little while?

    If an addict wants to get high they are ALWAYS going to find a way to do it. That is a no brainer. If I wanted to get high I surely wouldn't waste my time and money on subs. I wouldn't waste my time or energy on any type of recovery program whether it's suboxone, NA, AA, church or anything else if I was planning to test the water to see if I could still get high. That isn't even a relapse. Thats nothing but making a joke out of recovery.

    Maybe I am confused about recovery. I thought the idea was to never use again and subs was a tool for helping us to achieve that goal. I guess I am confused about this whole recovery thing maybe? Thanks for the explanation but I choose to stay clean today with or without subs. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #3
    clinilab is offline Junior Member
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    Hey, you tried it and now you know. You probably knew all along.

    I bet it felt good to get back on the subs, though, right? Maybe you just needed a little reminder of what it's like to have to worry every freaking four hours that your going to be sick....and maybe you realized that the three days off subs really wasn't worth it. I mean three days of being sick just to "plan" getting high? What kind of addict is happy with that scenario-lol.

    If you find that this starts to become a problem or you start thinking about using the subs only as a last resort not to be sick then think of switching to methadone. You won't be able to get off on anything else if you are on methadone at a stable dose-that is a verifiable promise. Your tolerance wont allow it. If your on a good enough dose you wont be even slightly sedated (after the first month or so) and you wont even care to try stopping and starting again.

    My only problem these days is trying to figure out what to do with all the extra time I have!

  4. #4
    clinilab is offline Junior Member
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    Robert maybe her idea of "recovery" is different than yours. Not everyone believes that total abstienance is the only way to get better. I mean, the fact that she could "plan" a relapse is a major improvement that flies in the face of addiction. Addiction is not being able to plan ANYTHING you do because your so consummed by using....it doesn't always have to be about complete obedience. Sometimes just getting to a point where you have some semblance of control is a goal.

    I always find it ironic when people call for total abstienance anyway, because so few people actually follow this.....even if your on AD's, drinking coffee or smoking cigs your altering your mood to "stay" in recovery.

    I wouldn't even reset your "clean" time. Who cares? Unless this one slip altered your life is some unfathomable way, what does it matter?

  5. #5
    jeni0227 is offline New Member
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    Robert,
    I am in no means condoning any behavior here. I hope you understand that. I came on here, loved the site, felt very comfortable, and thought maybe someone could tell me if what I am being perscribed is ok. I guess maybe I feel like it might not be the best thing for me. However, I haven't had any trouble. Maintenance suboxone, and percs for breakthrough pain work for me. I don't abuse the fact that I have the percs in my possession, and I don't even crave them anymore (thx to the subs, I believe) I don't even take them on a daily basis. Only for pain, when absolutely needed. In fact, I don't even take the perscribed amount of subs everyday, only what I need. My life has completely turned around compared to two years ago, and I owe it to suboxone. I could have never done it without this medicine. It trully is a godsend. I do have one comment bout "methadone" treatment. Methadone is not your friend... I do not believe that methadone should be used for opiate addiction. All it did for me was cause another addiction, which brought with it major worse w/d symptoms. Coming off of methadone was like dying.
    Anyway, I just wanted to apologize to everyone if my posts made it sound like I was condoning "playing a game" I didn't mean that at all. I do apologize if it sounded that way.

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    clinilab is offline Junior Member
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    It was just a suggestion....the methadone thing. I am sorry it didn't work for you. However, I can't for the life of me see how you can consider Suboxone any different than methadone? My life is, as you put it, "my life has completely turned around compared to FIVE years ago, and I owe it to METHADONE,"
    Take care.

  7. #7
    jeni0227 is offline New Member
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    Clinilab,
    I'm glad that methadone is working for you. Here is my story on methadone, and maybe then I'll make more sense. I was switched to methadone because I was taking too many percs. My dr believed that methadone would be better. At first, it was great... it just made me feel normal (like subs do), but then over quite a few months, my dose didn't seem to work, so we upped the dose, and then upped again a few months later... pretty soon, I was rx'd 4 10mg meths a day. Pretty soon after that, it didn't seem to be enough either so I was getting xtras every month from a friend. (BAD ME) All during this, I would wake up at 4am, roll over, take my 2 meths, and go back to sleep, just to wake up 2 hours later feeling absolutely perfect and normal. I remember a few times trying to quit the meth or running out, and the withdrawls were unbearable. They were horrible for me. My opiate of choice was always percs, but I soon found that the "roller coaster" effect just wasn't worth it. After battlling percs, then meths to get off of percs, I was put on subs, and have been on the same consistent dosage for over a year. Works for me. I wish you the very best, and if you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. I love this forum... it really helps me. It opens my eyes to other possible solutions as well.

  8. #8
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by clinilab View Post
    Robert maybe her idea of "recovery" is different than yours. Not everyone believes that total abstienance is the only way to get better. I mean, the fact that she could "plan" a relapse is a major improvement that flies in the face of addiction. Addiction is not being able to plan ANYTHING you do because your so consummed by using....it doesn't always have to be about complete obedience. Sometimes just getting to a point where you have some semblance of control is a goal.

    I always find it ironic when people call for total abstienance anyway, because so few people actually follow this.....even if your on AD's, drinking coffee or smoking cigs your altering your mood to "stay" in recovery.

    I wouldn't even reset your "clean" time. Who cares? Unless this one slip altered your life is some unfathomable way, what does it matter?


    I have never imposed any personal beliefs about complete abstinance on anyone here. I suggest recovery programs to those trying to get clean as they help. I often talk about using medications medicinally rather than recreationally. I see nothing wrong with using a medication for a purpose other than getting high.

    One of my own personal problems with tradtional 12 step recovery is someone else telling me that if I drink a beer I have relapsed even though I have no problems with alcohol. I don't condone addictive behavior however. If that is what someone else wants to do that's their business, but I don't call it recovery when we use subs to "dry out" for a couple days between binges. Thats just me.

    I am not sure exactly how to take your post. I simply reply to questions and make suggestions when asked.

    I don't think you will find me judging anyone here even when I disagree with their philosophy regarding recovery. Recovery is a personal issue. What works for me doesn't HAVE to be the way someone else does it. But for what it's worth I don't drink coffee, smoke cigarettes, take ADs, or the other things you mentioned. So I don't actually understand what you are saying to me. What have I done or said that you have a problem with here? When I said that recovery was about not using again I was referring to the drug of choice, the drug causing the addictive behavior. I don't think I have EVER said that no one should ever use any medications.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 12-23-2008 at 06:59 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  9. #9
    Katwantshelp is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeni0227 View Post
    Robert,
    I am in no means condoning any behavior here. I hope you understand that. I came on here, loved the site, felt very comfortable, and thought maybe someone could tell me if what I am being perscribed is ok. I guess maybe I feel like it might not be the best thing for me. However, I haven't had any trouble. Maintenance suboxone, and percs for breakthrough pain work for me. I don't abuse the fact that I have the percs in my possession, and I don't even crave them anymore (thx to the subs, I believe) I don't even take them on a daily basis. Only for pain, when absolutely needed. In fact, I don't even take the perscribed amount of subs everyday, only what I need. My life has completely turned around compared to two years ago, and I owe it to suboxone. I could have never done it without this medicine. It trully is a godsend. I do have one comment bout "methadone" treatment. Methadone is not your friend... I do not believe that methadone should be used for opiate addiction. All it did for me was cause another addiction, which brought with it major worse w/d symptoms. Coming off of methadone was like dying.
    Anyway, I just wanted to apologize to everyone if my posts made it sound like I was condoning "playing a game" I didn't mean that at all. I do apologize if it sounded that way.
    I just can't see a dr prescribing a med (Suboxone) to help break opiate addiction and also give an opiate for break thru pain (Percocet). I am not judging you or coming down on you, I am just baffled as to why any dr would do this. Any insight on this, Robert?

    Hugs,
    Kat

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    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    I think the truth is that just about anything can happen. We're all different and respond to drugs differently. I'm afraid that for a time I got pretty adept at switching back and forth between suboxone and tramadol. I got high on both (please don't anyone tell me that you can't get high on suboxone; some people do, and I am one of them, unfortunately) and alternated according to supply. It made the detox-with-suboxone program worthless for me and left me no choice but to just do a long taper myself.

    Whatever you're taking, I would think the objective would be to try to take less and less, on your way to none.

  11. #11
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katwantshelp View Post
    I just can't see a dr prescribing a med (Suboxone) to help break opiate addiction and also give an opiate for break thru pain (Percocet). I am not judging you or coming down on you, I am just baffled as to why any dr would do this. Any insight on this, Robert?

    Hugs,
    Kat

    I quit trying to figure out why some drs do what they do. Gives me a headache they can be so confusing. I don't see the benefit in doing this either though Kat so we can both be in the dark. God bless.
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  12. #12
    kimchicheese is offline Member
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    my sub doctor told me that they put naloxone in the sub so you cant shoot it. After your bodys recpters get use to the sub THATS whats gonna keep u from getting high from your OCs
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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimchicheese View Post
    my sub doctor told me that they put naloxone in the sub so you cant shoot it. After your bodys recpters get use to the sub THATS whats gonna keep u from getting high from your OCs


    That is correct about the naloxone. The buprenorphine, however, blocks the opiates from working. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    kerschank is offline New Member
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    Question what are AD's ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I have never imposed any personal beliefs about complete abstinance on anyone here. I suggest recovery programs to those trying to get clean as they help. I often talk about using medications medicinally rather than recreationally. I see nothing wrong with using a medication for a purpose other than getting high.

    One of my own personal problems with tradtional 12 step recovery is someone else telling me that if I drink a beer I have relapsed even though I have no problems with alcohol. I don't condone addictive behavior however. If that is what someone else wants to do that's their business, but I don't call it recovery when we use subs to "dry out" for a couple days between binges. Thats just me.

    I am not sure exactly how to take your post. I simply reply to questions and make suggestions when asked.

    I don't think you will find me judging anyone here even when I disagree with their philosophy regarding recovery. Recovery is a personal issue. What works for me doesn't HAVE to be the way someone else does it. But for what it's worth I don't drink coffee, smoke cigarettes, take ADs, or the other things you mentioned. So I don't actually understand what you are saying to me. What have I done or said that you have a problem with here? When I said that recovery was about not using again I was referring to the drug of choice, the drug causing the addictive behavior. I don't think I have EVER said that no one should ever use any medications.
    -ive been on sub for 4 years &trying to taper off will i still hav wd's if i can get off sub

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    subboxxer is offline Member
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    Default Dead Man

    I have been using subutex for 6 years without ever going back to another opiate, until last week I got siatica. My MD gave me oxy's and I figured I would take them to get off the subutex (8mg) a day. Well that was 5 days ago and I was taking about 10 oxycodone (5mg) a day and now on day 5 I am going into withdrawal pupils big as dinner plates and the heebee geebee's the last time I took oxy was 7 hours ago can I go back to the subutex without going into WD? I want off this stuff so bad I have been sitting in a room watching TV for 6 years. I have NO motivation nor emotions. My advise to newbies is to do a quick stunt with buprenorphine and take advantage of what it can do in short time use.
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    subboxxer is offline Member
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    Default Dosing down by Fractions

    How can one accurately dose on subutex? Meaning when tapering off and needing .25mg or even a less decimal than that. How could you measure such a small amount accurately? Say I wanted to go down by .25mg every 2 weeks so I'm on 7mg and want to go to 6.75mg. How can this be measured (yeah the 6 is easy of course). Could it be crushed with sugar or something and mixed real well and then cut it or weigh it into even amounts? This is something I think would be very useful to tapering off with an accurate amount of the drug.
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  17. #17
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subboxxer View Post
    How can one accurately dose on subutex? Meaning when tapering off and needing .25mg or even a less decimal than that. How could you measure such a small amount accurately? Say I wanted to go down by .25mg every 2 weeks so I'm on 7mg and want to go to 6.75mg. How can this be measured (yeah the 6 is easy of course). Could it be crushed with sugar or something and mixed real well and then cut it or weigh it into even amounts? This is something I think would be very useful to tapering off with an accurate amount of the drug.




    You're right about it being simple doing anything in 2mg increments. That is just halving or quartering an 8mg pill. For fractions the best thing to do is take a 2mg piece of a pill and crush it totally into powder. Then divide it with a single-edged razor blade into four equal .5mg piles. If you need .75mg you simply take one of the .5mg piles and split one of the other .5mg piles with the razor into two .25mg piles.

    These piles get very small, so even though it's a hassle I would use a post-it note and label the piles so you don't get them confused. Be sure and use a mirror or a small picture frame glass and put the few little piles somewhere safe where they don't get mixed up or mixed together. It's obviously easy to divide the piles like this into whatever size doses you'll need.

    Take a crisp piece of paper, put a sharp crease on it. Then you just pour the powder under your tongue. OBviously it would be more simple if the drug company produced smaller doses. Like in France they have .2mg and .4mg doses. It seems like the drug companies in this country are trying to keep us at larger doses by not making any small doses available. But if you follow what I'm saying, and only crush 2mg up at a time so you don't create a mess. I promise that will work great for you. Let me know if I can help in any other way. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  18. #18
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subboxxer View Post
    I have been using subutex for 6 years without ever going back to another opiate, until last week I got siatica. My MD gave me oxy's and I figured I would take them to get off the subutex (8mg) a day. Well that was 5 days ago and I was taking about 10 oxycodone (5mg) a day and now on day 5 I am going into withdrawal pupils big as dinner plates and the heebee geebee's the last time I took oxy was 7 hours ago can I go back to the subutex without going into WD? I want off this stuff so bad I have been sitting in a room watching TV for 6 years. I have NO motivation nor emotions. My advise to newbies is to do a quick stunt with buprenorphine and take advantage of what it can do in short time use.




    You're totally correct. The subs are meant to be used short term. I think using them for six years is crazy unless there are some VERY extenuating circumstances for using them that long. But I surely wouldn't go back to oxy after doing subs all that time.

    The plan I have been suggesting for years lasts for about two months going from the induction, through the taper and being totally off the subs completely. We have LOTS of success stories here with people using subs according to the standard taper plan we follow. It's the plan I came up with myself when I was using subs. I had no noticeable problems and started sharing the plan. Lots of people have gotten clean following exactly what I did to use them and get off totally clean.

    After using for six years it might take me an extra month or so to have you totally clean, but if you followed along to the letter with what I suggest I have no doubts that we would have you clean still within three months .... give or take a couple weeks or so. Been doing this a long time and I know how to get off subs within a pretty short time.

    Let me know if I can help you in any way. Good luck and God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 07-29-2010 at 07:34 PM.
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  19. #19
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    Regarding the question about splitting a pill for accurate dosing, I will tell you how I do it. This is just me but I have never had a problem. I don't worry about being totally accurate. I'm on .5 mgs. 1x per day. I break a 2 mg. pill into 4 pieces. They are close but never exact. However, since the half life of sub is so long (36-72 hours), I figure it catches up in the end. I end up taking one 2 mg. pill every 4 days and have been doing that for several months and it has always worked. I've never felt either withdrawal from too small a dose or high from to large a dose. I tried the straight razor to powder method and it is perfect for those who need the accuracy, but since the sub stays in your system so long and I have no patience, being almost accurate has always worked for me. In other words, do what you can to be accurate, but don't stress terribly because whether you take a tiny drop more or a tiny drop less on a daily basis, it ends up equalling out.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by newyorkgal View Post
    Regarding the question about splitting a pill for accurate dosing, I will tell you how I do it. This is just me but I have never had a problem. I don't worry about being totally accurate. I'm on .5 mgs. 1x per day. I break a 2 mg. pill into 4 pieces. They are close but never exact. However, since the half life of sub is so long (36-72 hours), I figure it catches up in the end. I end up taking one 2 mg. pill every 4 days and have been doing that for several months and it has always worked. I've never felt either withdrawal from too small a dose or high from to large a dose. I tried the straight razor to powder method and it is perfect for those who need the accuracy, but since the sub stays in your system so long and I have no patience, being almost accurate has always worked for me. In other words, do what you can to be accurate, but don't stress terribly because whether you take a tiny drop more or a tiny drop less on a daily basis, it ends up equalling out.




    Bev ..... I totally agree if you are planning on staying at that dose indefinitely. But if you're really trying to taper down to nothing it's more important to be accurate.

    Makes no difference whatsoever if you even miss a day occasionally or double up another day if you're just hanging at the same dose. But for those trying to get it all the way to zero if does make a difference to be more accurate.

    Not to argue, I am done with that forever, but think about what I'm saying and you'll see what I'm saying is right for those really trying to get to ZERO It does matter for them to get the dose right doing the taper. At least it made a difference for me getting clean. God bless. .
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  21. #21
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    I am done with it too, Robert and glad we can converse.. I do understand what you're saying. I said it in my post, this is what works FOR ME but realize accuracy is more important for some people and at the end of the taper especially. My goal with that post was just to say don't freak out and get overly anxious if the dose isn't always exact. Sometimes stress makes your brain think you feel bad when it's just anxiety. But yes, I agree with your point that accuracy is especially important at the end of a taper. It's weird though. I'm taking .5 but it's probably more like day 1, .4, day 2, ..5, day 3, .5, day 4 .6 or something like that and I never noticed any difference one way or the other. But again, I'm talking about ME and I'm not dropping dose right now and mainly, I'm glad with can talk without anger being involved. Congrats on your wedding!!.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-30-2010 at 08:35 AM.

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    subboxxer is offline Member
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    Default Thanks robert_325

    I really want to see your schedule because I REALLY WANT OFF this junk, I also want to thank you for responding with a sound answer. The reason I mentioned accuracy even for bigger doses albeit with lower doses it is essential even mandatory is because I was looking at a 3-day cycle. On days 1 and 2, decrease your normal daily intake by .5 mg, then on day 3 take the normal amount. For
    example, if the current daily intake is 6mg, take 5.5 mg on days
    1 and 2, then on day 3 take 6 mg. Repeat the 3-day cycle over 2-
    weeks (5.5,5.5,6,5.5,5.5,6, etc.) For the next 2-week period,
    reduce all daily intakes by .5 mg. This works because Suboxone
    stays in the body more than a couple of days. On the 3-day cycle,
    little or no withdrawal symptoms should be felt on days 1 and 2.
    On day 3 when the symptoms are expected, you trick your body and
    return to the higher dose. Is this your schedule? I don't remember where I got it but it is tempting to believe that it will work.

  23. #23
    subboxxer is offline Member
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    Default hi newyorkgal

    Yeah since you put it that way it does make sense being the long half life combined with a small inaccuracy of dosage. It probably doesn't make much of a difference. You see, I guess I was thinking too far ahead and I need to focus where I am now and where I am now no one would trade with me. I really want off 6 years on subutex average 5mg a day = HELL. But I am determined to get off and want a really effective taper schedule that I will follow. Please Help me Please. I feel completely hopeless

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subboxxer View Post
    I really want to see your schedule because I REALLY WANT OFF this junk, I also want to thank you for responding with a sound answer. The reason I mentioned accuracy even for bigger doses albeit with lower doses it is essential even mandatory is because I was looking at a 3-day cycle. On days 1 and 2, decrease your normal daily intake by .5 mg, then on day 3 take the normal amount. For
    example, if the current daily intake is 6mg, take 5.5 mg on days
    1 and 2, then on day 3 take 6 mg. Repeat the 3-day cycle over 2-
    weeks (5.5,5.5,6,5.5,5.5,6, etc.) For the next 2-week period,
    reduce all daily intakes by .5 mg. This works because Suboxone
    stays in the body more than a couple of days. On the 3-day cycle,
    little or no withdrawal symptoms should be felt on days 1 and 2.
    On day 3 when the symptoms are expected, you trick your body and
    return to the higher dose. Is this your schedule? I don't remember where I got it but it is tempting to believe that it will work.




    subboxxer ....... I have found the key to success at this making things as simple as possible. People show up on this forum in all stages of detox, confusion, and despair. Jumping all over the place with dosing would be a mess for most people and frankly I wouldn't do it anything like that. I am working with 15-20 people in different stages of the taper at any given time. I just don't have the time or resources to keep up with something like that for so many people. I understand what you've said but I don't use that system. I've even heard of doubling your dose on the sixth day following a five day induction and then stopping cold. The relapse rate is too high and I've seen my plan work with way above average success ratios.

    I used subs to get clean myself with no advice, I was strictly on my own. So I developed my own technique for tapering and have been sharing it for years on this forum. It's been very successful. Ideally I will start out with a person from the first day of induction and work right through the taper until they complete it and are clean. I normally induct a person at between 4-6mg. Unfortunately drs tend to over-prescribe subs at doses like 16mg to as much as 40mg during induction and by the time the patients get here they are on ridiculously high doses or like you, have been using the medication for years. So I'm forced to work with each person making suggestions symptomatically.

    The basic taper plan is very simple but it works with a few variables. Normally I will have a person reduce their dose by 25% every four days. Very simple. You're at 8mg so you would reduce to to 6mg for four days. Then you would reduce to 4.5mg after four days. As the dose decreases the amount being reduced decreases accordingly. You continue to reduce by 25% until such time that you get down to between .25mg - .5mg. Then you go through a day-skipping process allowing for the long half life to catch up with itself.

    If you start the day skipping at .25mg for example, you would dose, then skip one day entirely. Then dose again, and then skip two days. Dose again, then skip three days. Dose again, and after you've made it four days, just like during the taper plan, you should be able to jump off totally and be clean. With a half life of up to 72 hours I like to allow up to four days to make sure the half life isn't a factor when reducing the dose during the taper or during the day-skipping process.

    Having used for six years you may experience a plateau here or there where you need to stay at a given dose for up to a week vs four days. It just depends on your results. If you want to work with me following that taper plan I will be happy to work with you. But I don't have the time to be jumping around up and down with dosing like you described. I am working with too many people by myself and have no way to keep up with that type of program. So it's up to you. Let me know if you choose to do this my way. If so I'll be happy to begin immediately and you'll end up clean as long as you follow the instructions I give you. I know how to do this and my process works plain and simple. I have years of success here with a record to back up what I'm saying.. Let me know your decision. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  25. #25
    subboxxer is offline Member
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    YES - I am totally dedicatd to getting off this stuff. The only thing is I dose all over the place I need to find my minimum dose and that is what I am doing now. I took off for 5 days and took 50mg of oxys to try and get off this junk but 50mg was not enough and I was certain that I would need astronomical amounts to "break through" so I went back to the subs. As of now (after 5 day cheat kick) I took 1mg yesterday at 5:00pm and 1mg this morning at 6:00am and I feel ok. I usually gague my withdrawal levels by looking at my pupils dilation and they are small right now. Is there an easier way to find my minimum? Through the years I was doseing at 3mg a day and the past year after quitting smoking I went up to 7mg-8mg a day. But I think I can level off at 3mg a day (I think). As anxious as I am to get off this junk I do not want to rush it but of course the sooner the better. I know everybody is different but how long is the average person taking to jump? I am very interested in getting your help and will do exactly what you suggest I do. Most importantly I want to thank you for your time and effort it means a lot to me and I appreciate it very much.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-30-2010 at 08:45 AM.

  26. #26
    OXYmom is offline Member
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    I just wanted to chime in here and tell you that I am very happy for you. Robert was and is a Godsend for me. I won't go into detail with my story, beginning in Nov. 2008, just suffice it to say that Robert helped me wean down from a higher dose of Sub than I needed and I got a lot of support here. If you are the kind of person that may want support and feedback from others, might I suggest you start your own thread? It sure was helpful for me and very easy to do. Plus, if you need help, we could help you start it! Whatever you decide, it's cool.
    Feel free to post often and with Robert's help, you will be free of this hold that Suboxone has on you. You will feel things again, you will find you again. I just wanted to stop in here and encourage you to fight the good fight and try not to get discouraged while doing this taper. My biggest enemy was anxiety when it was time to taper, but in reality, it wasn't hard to do and I did fine with it. So if I and so many others can do it, then so can you!!!!!! Good luck to you and God bless you and Robert!!!

  27. #27
    subboxxer is offline Member
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    OXYmon thanks for the inspiring words I appreciate it. This is what I needed there is so much despair out there on the net about how hopeless it is to get off sub it is REAL depressing. I am ready to move forward and get off this junk forever.

  28. #28
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subboxxer View Post
    YES - I am totally dedicatd to getting off this stuff. The only thing is I dose all over the place I need to find my minimum dose and that is what I am doing now. I took off for 5 days and took 50mg of oxys to try and get off this junk but 50mg was not enough and I was certain that I would need astronomical amounts to "break through" so I went back to the subs. As of now (after 5 day cheat kick) I took 1mg yesterday at 5:00pm and 1mg this morning at 6:00am and I feel ok. I usually gague my withdrawal levels by looking at my pupils dilation and they are small right now. Is there an easier way to find my minimum? Through the years I was doseing at 3mg a day and the past year after quitting smoking I went up to 7mg-8mg a day. But I think I can level off at 3mg a day (I think). As anxious as I am to get off this junk I do not want to rush it but of course the sooner the better. I know everybody is different but how long is the average person taking to jump? I am very interested in getting your help and will do exactly what you suggest I do. Most importantly I want to thank you for your time and effort it means a lot to me and I appreciate it very much.



    Ok. We have to determine a specific dose to start at where we work from on a daily basis. Got to have consistency. I don't care if it's 3mg or if it's 8mg, the dose isn't as important as the process.

    What is a dose that you can start on where you KNOW that you'll be okay. We will start from there. Tell me the amount, we will make sure you're stable at that dose and then we'll start the taper. Let me know. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  29. #29
    subboxxer is offline Member
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    Well I know that I will be ok on 4mg for sure. And I mean Just ok, not high off it, but not creepy sick either. Quick review as of now I did 1mg at 6:00am and feel ok and last night at 5:00pm I did 1mg and the 5 days before that 50mg oxys. Before that 6mg - 7mg (snorted) for a year and 3mg (sublingual) for 5 years before that, that's my history. The reason I went on for a long period is because I was hopeless, if you saw me at that time you would agree I needed a serious change in my life dope feind like mad. I was unenployed; going through a divorce; lost my house (that I bought) in the divorce; I was kicking dope in jail and my Father died and I couldn't go to the funeral. We were very close too he was the only one that supported me he never gave up on me, he always had a smile and a pat on the back to give me.

  30. #30
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subboxxer View Post
    Well I know that I will be ok on 4mg for sure. And I mean Just ok, not high off it, but not creepy sick either. Quick review as of now I did 1mg at 6:00am and feel ok and last night at 5:00pm I did 1mg and the 5 days before that 50mg oxys. Before that 6mg - 7mg (snorted) for a year and 3mg (sublingual) for 5 years before that, that's my history. The reason I went on for a long period is because I was hopeless, if you saw me at that time you would agree I needed a serious change in my life dope feind like mad. I was unenployed; going through a divorce; lost my house (that I bought) in the divorce; I was kicking dope in jail and my Father died and I couldn't go to the funeral. We were very close too he was the only one that supported me he never gave up on me, he always had a smile and a pat on the back to give me.




    subboxxer ..... Try to forget the past and let's just focus totally on the present from this day forward. Let's do it this way. I don't want you to "just be okay" when we begin. Let's go ahead and start at 6mg if you are "just okay" at 4mg. Stay at 6mg for three days to make sure that is the right dose for you to begin on. That is not too high of a dose after all these years. I want us to take our time doing this together and make sure you're ready to make every taper before doing anything. Please don't change anything you're doing unless we agree together what is in your best interest. Remember THAT if you remember anything I've said to you!

    No more snorting the doses EVER!!! NO more oxy EVER!!! Take 3mg of sub in the morning and 3mg 8-10 hours later. Take your meds the same way at the same time each day. After four days, assuming that all is well, you can plan on reducing to 4.5mg for another four days. We'll continue reducing the dose just like this and you should be looking at a couple months to be totally clean.

    Remember that I'm not a probation officer trying to catch you on a UA. I'm your friend here and you can trust me. Please remember that I'm on your side though all this. Shoot totally straight with me or I won't be able to help you effectively. I'm expecting this to go very well for you. Just trust me and stick with what I'm trying to do to help you. Everything will work out and you'll soon be another success story and totally done with the subs for good. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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