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SUBOXONE: spit/swallow
  1. #1
    sarrocks1 is offline New Member
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    Default SUBOXONE: spit/swallow

    IS IT BETTER TO LEAVE SUBOXONE IN YOUR MOUTH UNTIL IT COMPLETELY DISSOLVES AND SWALLOW THE SALIVA? OR SPIT?
    I have been on suboxone for almost 2 months. My doctor told me when my saliva accumulates in my mouth while the pill is dissolving, i can swallow, as long as i do not swallow the pill. Fine, i get that. But sometimes right before i swallow, i taste concentrated suboxone in my saliva (the saliva build-up on TOP of my tongue) while i swallow it.
    I read that when you take suboxone, about 40-70% of the actual buprenorphine is being absorbed through the vessels under your tongue.

    I also have no bottom real molars, so the pill often slips out from under my tongue and finds its way on the other side of my bottom teeth!

    DOES IT HELP IF I DONT SWALLOW MY SALIVA UNTIL 15 MINUTES AFTER THE PILLS COMPLETELY DISSOLVE?

  2. #2
    bev49 is offline Banned
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    sarrocks, I don't think it really makes that much difference. My pill starts under my tongue, sometimes slips to the top of my tongue, the side of my mouth, wherever. As long as you don't swallow it whole, I think it should be fine - No need to keep the saliva in your mouth..

  3. #3
    sarrocks1 is offline New Member
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    thanks bev, one of the reasons i asked was because i heard that swallowing the remaining saliva can induce intense headaches. i have regular headaches as it is, and research on the matter has not proven useful results. mostly non-professional, personal opinions. my doctor has not been available for me to ask directly.
    do you or anyone you know swallow the "sub juice" and get more intense, frequent headaches?

  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I know of NO ONE who gets headaches from swallowing the subs. How much medication are you actually getting if you spit out what "you think" has no suboxone in it?

    I've heard this question numerous times and I always answer it the same way. Don't spit out the subs. It's not the thing to do. You leave it in your mouth to be absorbed sublingually and then just swallow what is left. That's what I suggest and what I did.

    I won't debate spitting or swallowing. I just think it's unwise to spit out medication that costs $8 for each pill. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #5
    spence318 is offline New Member
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    Default n/t

    brake them into 1/4s then put them under tongue I think there is a lot of waste also sometimes I will just snort 1/8s

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by spence318 View Post
    brake them into 1/4s then put them under tongue I think there is a lot of waste also sometimes I will just snort 1/8s



    Snorting medication is totally addictive behavior. May as well use if you are going to snort drugs.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #7
    Michelle8806 is offline New Member
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    Exclamation Headaches from swallowing

    Quote Originally Posted by sarrocks1 View Post
    thanks bev, one of the reasons i asked was because i heard that swallowing the remaining saliva can induce intense headaches. i have regular headaches as it is, and research on the matter has not proven useful results. mostly non-professional, personal opinions. my doctor has not been available for me to ask directly.
    do you or anyone you know swallow the "sub juice" and get more intense, frequent headaches?
    I have been on the 8:2 suboxone tablets for 4 days now. After the pill completely dissolves, I have been swallowing the saliva with the medication in it... And over the past 4 days I have had the MOST SEVERE HEADACHES I have ever had in my entire life. The headaches come and go but when they come they are the worst. I have thought about discontinuing suboxone... It is literally that bad. I am going to try spitting next time. I'd rather underdose than deal with the excruciating pain. I hope this post helps someone.

  8. #8
    bailey90 is offline New Member
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    I use to get headaches also from taking my Suboxones. I hated it and almost went back to Methadone because of it. But MOST of the time the headaches are caused by to high of a dose. I was prescribed 3 8/2mg Suboxones daily. And every morning threwout the day i would get a headache. I cut myself down to 2 1/2 still got the headaches then down to 2 and still. But 3months ago i dropped myself down to 1pill daily. And now i don't get any headaches unless i get my typical migraines. So try cutting your dose down. Your be surprised how little of a dose of Suboxones you really need to function. I was on 135mg of Methadone and before that 6bundles of >>>>>> and only weighing 115 pounds. And i take only 1 pill and im perfectly fine. As for the saliva, i brake my 1 pill down into 4 pieces and put 2 pieces on each side under my tongue and press down with it rubbing the pills every once in awhile to make it dissolve quicker. If i was you i would TRY not to swallow till the hole pill is dissolved then swallow. Spitting is just a waste, tried it, and actually felt alittle big sick (W/Ds). Also if the pill moves around thats okay, some doctors have you put the pill on the roof of your mouth. As long as you keep the silva in your mouth for alittle bit for it can get into your blood vessels your be fine. Hope my info works!

  9. #9
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I don't make a habit of interfering but subs are to be taken sublingually (UNDER THE TONGUE) NOT in the roof of the mouth. And you don't spit out the medication. It's plain and simple.

    If you get a headache take headache medicine. Surprisingly Excedrin Migraine works wonderfully. As a last resort get a script for Zomig. You don't just swish the liquid around your mouth for a while. That is totally wrong information.

    This is the proper way to use subs. I've done this a thousand times and I'm right. God bless.
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    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  10. #10
    secretsquare is offline New Member
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    I suppose everyone is different but in my experience, swallowing gives me headache AND nausea. I usually leave the box in my mouth for a good hour and then spit. no more headaches, no more nausea, and I feel the effects just fine. the bioavailability is much much lower when passing thru the digestive system, so there really is no benefit to swallowing.

  11. #11
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    dunno why you people are talkin bout swallowing, if you take it right, under your tongue, it dissolves in less than a few minutes...

    no need to spit or swallow..
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  12. #12
    jaypbarb666 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheekysod View Post
    dunno why you people are talkin bout swallowing, if you take it right, under your tongue, it dissolves in less than a few minutes...

    no need to spit or swallow..
    See this is something different for everyone. My ex girlfriend would put one (8mg) under her tongue and it would be gone in a minute and she would feel the effects a lot. I could take a small (2mg) one and put it under my tongue and even 20 minutes later there would still be some left. It would also not be possible to not need to swallow too because my mouth fills up with saliva about every 15 seconds. I wonder why it's different for some people? I know I'm not taking it wrong, it stays in the same spot under my tongue the whole time and never moves.

  13. #13
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaypbarb666 View Post
    See this is something different for everyone. My ex girlfriend would put one (8mg) under her tongue and it would be gone in a minute and she would feel the effects a lot. I could take a small (2mg) one and put it under my tongue and even 20 minutes later there would still be some left. It would also not be possible to not need to swallow too because my mouth fills up with saliva about every 15 seconds. I wonder why it's different for some people? I know I'm not taking it wrong, it stays in the same spot under my tongue the whole time and never moves.



    First of all NO ONE needs to put 8mg in their mouth at once. That is a crazy dose to take that NO ONE requires, regardless of what your sub dr says. You just don't need that much. Secondly the correct process when you take subs is to drink a big glass of water before you take the sub to make sure your mouth is well hydrated. Then when you put it under your tongue it will dissolve in a short period of time, as in minutes at the most, and you just swallow the saliva.

    People who spit it out invariably end up spitting out some of the medication because they were not well hydrated before taking the dose. And I repeat NO ONE needs anywhere close to an 8mg dose. We induct people here on 2-3mg every day. In other countries they use .2mg and .4mg doses, 8mg pills don't even exist. That is just the greedy American drug companies trying to slam a bunch of meds down you for profit that you don't need to use subs effectively.

    I've done this for years and I've only inducted a couple people total at 8mg and they were down to 4mg within ten days. Normally inductions are done at between 2-3mg. But drink some water first and swallow what is left over when the med dissolves, which it will. Hope that helps. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 08-27-2011 at 12:37 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  14. #14
    Adiener1211 is offline New Member
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    Default Terrible Headaches!!! Migraines

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle8806 View Post
    I have been on the 8:2 suboxone tablets for 4 days now. After the pill completely dissolves, I have been swallowing the saliva with the medication in it... And over the past 4 days I have had the MOST SEVERE HEADACHES I have ever had in my entire life. The headaches come and go but when they come they are the worst.
    I too have had this problem ever since I have been prescribed suboxone from a doctor. I am on 8mg in morning and 4mg at night! I have always swallowed the saliva after the pill dissolves. Almost every other day I have been getting the worst migraines that cause me to sleep the day away and call out of work. I've been reading and decided to spit out the remains, but leaving it in my mouth a little longer than before. I have not gotten a straight answer from my doctor about this method but I am not so concerned about loosing any of the effects. I've learned that less is still going to make you feel the same. Taking too much makes me very doppy and lathargic! I also find it can give me a little edge to my attitude. You also have to remember that everyone reacts to the drug differently so I would just find your own right method on your own!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adiener1211 View Post
    I too have had this problem ever since I have been prescribed suboxone from a doctor. I am on 8mg in morning and 4mg at night! I have always swallowed the saliva after the pill dissolves. Almost every other day I have been getting the worst migraines that cause me to sleep the day away and call out of work. I've been reading and decided to spit out the remains, but leaving it in my mouth a little longer than before. I have not gotten a straight answer from my doctor about this method but I am not so concerned about loosing any of the effects. I've learned that less is still going to make you feel the same. Taking too much makes me very doppy and lathargic! I also find it can give me a little edge to my attitude. You also have to remember that everyone reacts to the drug differently so I would just find your own right method on your own!
    the headaches are probably coz 12mg is a helluva high dose. try reducing and you will probably have less headaches...

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    HHHKKK50 is offline New Member
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    Talking

    [deleted - swearing]
    Last edited by ddcmod; 12-21-2011 at 03:42 PM.

  17. #17
    HHHKKK50 is offline New Member
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    Default This is insane information!!!

    This is insane information!!! I`ve been on subutex now for 3 years and been having all these symtoms you all are complaining about. NEVER NEW ABOUT THIS SITE! Hearing all these complains and reading all the second hand advise really opened my eyes. I had such bad headaches that i checked myself into the hospitol. Had cat scans , ekg`s , spinal tap test,.......the list is crazy. Nobody here in Germany could give me an answer for why I was feeling so sick. Now I read all this and feel I need to go into Detox tomorrow. Long term Subutex is definetly unhealthy!!! Three years is a long time and honestly I hate my life just as much as I did when I was using illegal drugs! My mouth taste like chemicals all the time. My live-in girlfriend hate kissing me ! My memory has gone to hell in a basket. I`m just not the same great guy I was before! My girlfriend can`t stand kissing me becuase I taste like a chemical plant. Life wasn`t good when using street drugs but fooling myself with Subutex all these years has been the worst mistake I`ve could have made my intire adult life. All the side effects are amazing when you consider the health risk. I now have to worry about migrain headaches the rest of my adult life. Long term Subutex should be studied and people like us should learn not to jump into a quick fix all the time. January will be my detox to subutex. What will be my next quick fix??????????

  18. #18
    tinagonz is offline New Member
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    Default drug doesn't digest, doesn't hurt to spit the part that would be swallowed

    I have heard of the method of spitting instead of swallowing and the logic behind it is, if you wait until you are about to swallow, if you wait until it dissolves long enough right when you are about to swallow then spit out, you do not loose out on any of the medication. If amounts swallowed doesn't assist in the function of the medication then it does not matter if you spit that part out. I know that it does cause major headaches if any of the naloxone is swallowed it can cause itching, headaches, sweating and allergic reactions but the naloxone does not help in the weening of your addiction so it will not hurt to spit the portion you were going to swallow anyway. I recomment spitting that part out, but only when it comes time to when you would normally swallow.I hope this helps

  19. #19
    tinagonz is offline New Member
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    I have heard of the method of spitting and instead of swallowing and the logic behind it is, if you wait until you are about to swallow, if you wait until it dissolves long enough right when you are about to swallow then spit out, you do not loose out on any of the medication. If amounts swallowed doesn't assist in the function of the medication then it does not matter if you spit that part out. I know that it does cause major headaches if any of the naloxone is swallowed it can cause itching, headaches, sweating and allergic reactions but the naloxone does not help in the weening of your addiction so it will not hurt to spit the portion you were going to swallow anyway. I recomment spitting that part out, but only when it comes time to when you would normally swallow.I hope this helps

  20. #20
    secretsquare is offline New Member
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    just a little update. i've done a crapload of trolling around looking for better ways to take subs, and...

    take between 600-900mgs of st john's wort, (look for new chapter's SC27 formula.) an hour before dosing.
    rinse your mouth out with high alcohol content mouthwash
    split your sub in half long ways and place it in between your upper gums and upper lip like dip.

  21. #21
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by secretsquare View Post
    just a little update. i've done a crapload of trolling around looking for better ways to take subs, and...

    .... take between 600-900mgs of st john's wort, (look for new chapter's SC27 formula.) an hour before dosing.
    .... rinse your mouth out with high alcohol content mouthwash
    .... split your sub in half long ways and place it in between your upper gums and upper lip like dip.



    Using subs like dip is incorrect. And what difference how you split it could that possibly make? What if you cut it diagnally? Will it not work?

    Subs are a sublingual medication and that means it goes under your tongue period. And no one needs to spit out the medication. Been doing this for years and people make this out a lot more difficult than it is.

    Just drink a big glass of water before you dose and it will dissolve under the tongue fine. And naloxone doesn't cause headaches for most people. It's only 15% of all people that use subs at the most that have ANY adverse effects from naloxone. I've tracked this for a long time. And naloxone has a half life of just a few hours, meant only as a deterrent to people using it IV. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  22. #22
    secretsquare is offline New Member
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    the doctors and the manufacturers instruct people to place the medication under the tongue because even morons can hit such a large target. it's another case of catering to the lowest common denominator. but the reality is that buprenorphine can be absorbed thru ANY of the tissues in the mouth: tongue, cheek, gums, roof, floor, etc. it's not the large blue veins under the tongue that we should be targeting primarily as everyone is so inclined to believe. bupe is absorbed thru the surface tissue and into the capillaries. now, if you are to try it my way, lift up your upper lip and estimate the depth of gums you have access to in order to place the med there without plastering it across your teeth. in my case i must split the suboxone longways and stick it up there horizontally, otherwise i'd be laying it right across my teeth. after a few minutes i massage my gums from the outside of my upper lip, which helps to spread it further horizontally across the gums. the more unique surfaces of the mouth it comes into DIRECT contact with, the better.

    now, the main reason i put my suboxone here is saliva buildup. when placed sublingually you are placing it right atop your salivary glands. if you have excess saliva, it washes it right off the tissue and into a dilute pool. once it's floating around in this pool, it's no longer in direct contact with your flesh, and not getting absorbed. that's all there is to it. yes, you will absorb some of the med, but not all of it. if you place it up in your gums, it is safe from being washed out with saliva, giving it longer access to the surface and in turn, more bupe is absorbed.

    i took suboxone sublingually for 2.5 months before i found this technique online. by then i had noticed that it felt like it had stopped working as well. the first time i gummed it i felt it working again. substantially more. and i have used it like this ever since.

    whichever method you try, rinse with mouthwash containing alcohol beforehand.

    "And naloxone doesn't cause headaches for most people. It's only 15% of all people that use subs at the most that have ANY adverse effects from naloxone."

    so for every 1,000,000 suboxone patients, =<150,000 have adverse side effects from naloxone? i'd say that's a significant percentage. if it gives you headaches, people, spit it out. just make sure you leave it in your mouth long enough for it all to absorb. if you place it in your gums, you might need to leave it in a bit longer. i am one of the 15%, and i spit it out after at least 30 mins. naloxone gives me headaches and nausea. and get this, when i spit it out, no headaches or nausea. hmmm, tough choice.

    the purpose of my original post was to instruct people on maximizing their dose, specifically for those with excess juice. sure, you can put it under your tongue and it may work just fine. if your mouth waters like a faucet then it is probably not working as well as it could. and if it isn't, try my way. or don't. darwin bless.

  23. #23
    secretsquare is offline New Member
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    robert_325, i respect your experience and desire to help. i am speaking from my experience. this is not a placebo effect type deal, the difference, for me, is tangible. now, it may not work for everyone, but if someone here is having difficulties, i implore them to try my way.

    i am an electrical engineering student, i'm smart and my mind is sound. i'm not inclined to believe far-fetched testimonials and things of a questionable nature. this is from my own personal experience and it works, much better than before.

  24. #24
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I'm not inclined to believe far fetched testimonials either. And I am not a student, been doing this for years. Not too sure how sound my mind is but I've done a few successful sub tapers here over the years. Everyone can do what they want and listen to whomever they choose.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 01-29-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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  25. #25
    secretsquare is offline New Member
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    some food for thought. i took my daily dose about an hour and a half ago, in the way that i described. none of it really touched the underside of my tongue at all. not only is it working but i feel buzzed. and this is after daily use for 4 months.

    try my way once, it couldn't hurt.

  26. #26
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Might as well just swallow the pill. Hope you're tapering after that long.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  27. #27
    secretsquare is offline New Member
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    now why would i swallow the strip (not pill)? minimal bioavailability in the intestinal tract.
    for long term abuse of opioids, long term suboxone maintenance is acceptable. i read a study somewhere that said a great many patients who were on suboxone for less than a year relapsed. you can use suboxone to get over the short hump of acute withdrawals from your opiate of choice but it's gonna take more than a month to attack the addictive behavior. we are addicts for life and the longer i stay away from what i was doing, the less likely i will return to what i was doing.

  28. #28
    secretsquare is offline New Member
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    ...but of course, as we all know, everyone is different. i don't plan to be on suboxone for more than a year, we shall see how things go. i tried short suboxone therapy twice and went right back to what i was doing. this time, this is the longest i have been clean since 2005.

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