[Robert_325]

I'm proud of him. I think he's done great from all I've seen. And you have done great too. He would have probably not made it through this without you. Lots of partners get pissed and won't participate like you have.

Saving the 2mg doses for later is smart. Out of curiousity when I was changing my personal insurance the other day I asked for the average national pricing for ten 8mg subutex vs thirty-one 2mg subs and the 8mg were about $75 and the 2mg were $125. So you get LOTS more medication buying 8mg subs for the same money. It's such a rip from the drug companies for that kind of pricing when no one really even needs 8mg pills if they would price the others reasonably.


He should NOT need the 8mg. No way after this far into the induction. If he says he needs the 8mg now it's in his head I guarantee. He doesn't need it. In fact after four days I was going to have him reduce to 4.5mg. That's usually what we do after four days. Then he would remain at 4.5mg for a week to so. At that point we should begin the taper down at the 25% of the dose every four days that he has no problems. That guarantees him off and being totally clean in two months. It will work just like I'm saying if he will go along with me.

This is where your work really begins. This is how you get your fiance back totally clean. I'll stick this out with you just continue doing as I suggest. God bless.

[intelmetal]

mdg11, Robert is right, he should stabilize at 6mgs then reduce to 4.5mgs. I personally felt my best at the 4.5mg dose and the 3.5mg dose, each for 4 days. During this 8 day stretch, he will feel like a million bucks, I did. Just keep him moving forward without too much discomfort. Nobody ever said this was a walk in the park, but VERY doable. Trust me, I thought that I would never be able to do it. It took me a total of 22 - 8mg subs over a 75 day taper to get finished. It is day 10 without any subs and I'm not looking back. I learned my lesson the hard way. I think I spent about $200,000.00 on opiates over the last 10-11 years ! I wish I had that money now, God knows I could use it. Continue to communicate with Robert and follow his instructions, the rewards for doing so are priceless !!! I am living proof. I am not proud of what I have done over the past 10 years, but am very proud at what I have accomplished since I got serious about tapering methadone first, then suboxone to finish it off. Boy does it feel good to cut that ball and chain !
Later.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[mdg11]

I continue to communicate all my information with him. i think you all are great and have helped me a ton.

We're still doing good at the 6. I have to get the 8mg tabs filled tomorrow so I'm not sure on the cost. The Dr did say they were cheaper. the 2mg tabs, 30 day supply were $40 with insurance.

I think he is getting the encouragement to log in and at least say hi, maybe.

The support you all give is very encouraging!

Tomorrow he preferred to cut it half and half so 3 mg in the am and 3 mg in the pm. today he did it 4mg/2mg.

So is the taper day on Thursday or is it Friday? Any thing I should look for that he may experience doing this?

[Robert_325]

He should take the same dose twice each day. There is a purpose in that as he tapers so ask him to do it now. LEt's just talk over the next few days and we'll figure when he's ready to taper. Don't want to get ahead of ourselves like drs do. I like to wait and make suggestions based on his symptoms. He's doing very well. It would be great if he would login and join the forum. We would love to have him too. God bless.

[mdg11]

I didnt' get the message in time. So he did the 4mg again this morning and then will get the 2mg this evening.

When you say the same dose twice a day, you would mean 3mg in the am and 3mg in the pm, correct?

he doesn't feel 100% but ok. he does have headaches which i understood is common.

If you can confirm the 3/3mg both times, we'll start that tomorrow.

[Robert_325]

That is correct. Take 3mg twice daily.

Have him take some aleve or I use excedrin migraine. It's great for headaches. But he should take something if his head is hurting. God bless.

[mdg11]

I read this somewhere and can't find it.

I have the 8mg tabs. I cut them in half to make 2, 4mg tabs. Then cut each of those halves into a half to get a 2mg tab?

So then I'll cut the 2mg tab in half to make 1mg tab. twice a day i'm giving him the half cut 2mg tab and the half cut 1mg tab. Got it.

Seems like somewhere there were directions on the best way to cut them so they don't dust up and stay in a tab form.

[Robert_325]

I never made powder out of my subs when I did it either. I just sliced them gently with a single-edged razor. It worked fine for me. I would cut them like you just described. I would eyeball the wierd fractions of mg. It's really not that difficult. God bless.

[mdg11]

Hi Robert!

Wanted to report in. Today is his 2nd day on the 2 equal doses for a total of 6mg.

He says he just doesn't feel right. Yesterday and today, he's also had stomach cramps. I wasn't sure if this was due to the transition to giving him equal doses, or possibly that 6 mg was too much. I tried to tell him that a lot of people have felt better on even a lesser dose.

When do you think we should begin to do the taper down? I have heard before it takes 7 days to get addicted, is this why we like to do the taper in 4-5 days? Also, are there any symptoms he will experiece the day of the taper or at the 3-day half life of the sub? Just wondering what things I should be looking for. I guess I was hoping that on Saturday or even Sunday at the latest, we could taper him down since this would be day 6 and day 7 for being on 6mg.

On a good note, we have gone to our first chiropractor appt for his back pain to get adjusted and hopefully feeling better. We're looking into different meetings for him to attend as well.

7 days ago today he had his last oxy! Whooohooo!!


Long road still ahead but I believe we are on the right path!

[Robert_325]

Can't say in advance whether he'll be ready to drop the dose by Sunday. That's still a couple days away. Let's see how he is feeling then. He needs to be feeling good before we drop the dose.

We wait four days during the taper to allow for the half life. Has nothing to do with getting addicted. He won't be addicted doing it like I ask.

Hang in there. God bless.

[mdg11]

Hi Robert

I keep asking how he's feeling. Today I get alright. I believe a lot of it is in his head, but I really don't know.

We're up doing things so he's not miserable. we've been doing a lot of fishing. I give his meds to him at 8am and around 5pm. this morning he got up at 8am and stayed up


I guess I'm not quite sure how to determine when/if he is ready to taper down to 4.5mg. Any insight how to determine this? i am assuming when we do this it will be 2.25mg twice a day.

[Robert_325]

He's just getting into this. Remember he's in opiate w/d right now the subs are just hiding it. So his body is going through adjustments while all this is happening.

He needs a total of a week at 6mg. Refresh my memory so I don't have to dig through old posts. I answer so many sometimes I forget specific dates. That's what I use these posts for as notes. But after one week and if he is feeling good then he can reduce then to 4.5mg. I know it's coming up quickly.

Keep me posted. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Correction ....... He began four days ago. It's about time to drop to 4.5mg for his lowest effective dose. I'm sorry. See I talk to too many people at times. Let's see if he has a good day today. If he does let's do it tomorrow. Stay in touch. Sorry I got confused. God bless.

[mdg11]

yes, he started 6mg on Monday. Monday-Wed, we did 4mg in the am and 2mg in the pm. Thurs -today we did 3mg and 3mg.

We're about to take off for the rest of the evening. Do a little fishing and go watch his family sports car racing.

it will be late by the time I can get back on here and report how he has felt today and then i'll check in the morning if we can cross paths.

maybe Monday would be the best day to drop him.

thinking we're gonna have a fun night!

thank you so much robert!

[Robert_325]

Have fun! I'll look for him to be on two equal doses of 2.25mg on Monday if I don't hear from you sooner. He won't even notice the change I would bet.

Talk later. God bless.

[mdg11]

If i dropped it to 4.5 on sunday will something happen if it was too soon? To me he seems ok, but I'm just confused as to how I know -if that makes any sense.

If it won't hurt him to stay at the 6mg till Monday maybe that will be best to be sure.

[Robert_325]

Only reason I said Monday was that you said that was what you guys wanted to do. Reducing on Sunday is actually right on schedule and he should be fine. Plus it will give him a day at that new dose prior to Monday. I think that would be fine. God bless.

[mdg11]

Ok. I'll do it tomorrow. He actually will not be aware that I am dropping him down. it scares him to think of reducing his dosage and think that if he knew, mentally he would be more off.

4.25mg tomorrow, whoot, whooo! You probably know i have been dying to do this since we started.


Will he feel/have side effects?

[Robert_325]

I know you're excited and it's probably a typo. But it's 4.5mg not the 4.25mg you wrote. If you want to make it easier for YOU at this dose you can give him 2.5mg in the am and 2mg in the evening rather than figuring out all those little fractions if you don't want to. He won't even know we've done anything tomorrow. I'll check on you guys after church. God bless.

[mdg11]

Right, 4.5. I think i was thinking of the 2.25 for each dose. If i am struggling with the .25, I will do the other way.

will that mess with the tapering giving a dose at not the same mg's?

Thank you so much for everything, AGAIN!

[Robert_325]

It won't matter over a .5mg on this big of a dose. I would do it 2.5mg and 2mg if it was me. It's so much easier and he'll still do great with it. God bless.

[mdg11]

hey robert

so far so good! I did the 2.5 this morning and then will do 2mg this evening.

I'll check back tomorrow for further instructions. i was thinking this taper is done over 4 days....so on Thursday we would drop it again?

You can let me know for sure.

thank you.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by mdg11

hey robert

so far so good! I did the 2.5 this morning and then will do 2mg this evening.

I'll check back tomorrow for further instructions. i was thinking this taper is done over 4 days....so on Thursday we would drop it again?

You can let me know for sure.

thank you.

I would be SHOCKED if he has any symptoms especially while he is at this high of a dose. He'll never physically notice what we're doing for now at least. Hopefully that continues all the way down.

Yes he should be ready to reduce again on Thursday. Take his current dose of 4.5mg X .75 = 3.375mg. That dose can be rounded off obviously. Let's see how the next four days go. I'm expecting him to do very well. If that's the case I suggest reducing this time to 3.25mg.

This is a good time to see if we can get away with being a little more agressive. If you consistently reduce by more than 25% it will always catch up with you. But lots of people can successfully sneak in a 30-35% reduction occasionally and then do 25% the next time. While he is at a larger dose this is a good time to experiment a little with the dose.

Just keep me posted how it goes over the next few days. I expect it will be incident free. God bless.

[mdg11]

Hi Robert

So tonight not the greatest night. we lowered the dose last night, sunday. he felt dizzy last night. tonight, not feeling well. stomach cramps and sick.

I kind of feel like he wants to be left alone so i haven't asked much of how he was feeling after he was sick.

hmm. is this what we will expect after each taper?

[Robert_325]

NO. He shouldn't even feel it at 4.5mg. That's still a fairly high dose and usually an easy dose to taper to from 6mg. Let me know how he's doing later in the evening if you will. What kind of stomach symptoms is he having? God bless.

[mdg11]

I asked him if he was feeling better, he said he thought so, he's got some color back to him. stomach pains are gone.

it started as stomach cramps, vomited.

he had some excedrin, an energy drink (I didn't like) and some is it mylanta for stomach pain.

do you think anxiety would have an effect as this? How about if he were to have taken something that he shouldnt' have??? would it be sick and over with or linger around -i asked he assures me he did not take anything.

[simplysaucer]

hi Robert,

Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt and jump in on this threat where you're already helping someone..but I was wondering if you could help me as well and I"m not sure how to start a new threat or to get ahold of you. I have about 20 8-mg suboxone and can get more if I need them...and have been addicted to about 1mg of black tar heroin (smoking it) for almost 2 years. I want to be clean more than anything--I finally have a chance to pursue my dreams and got into school...but it starts septermber 29th...almost two months...Please, Please, could you help me with the process...I will try and get myself sick in the next few days--def. by end of week..and start induction at 8mg..but will you get in touch with me and start a thread to help me through the rest? I'm going to start going to N/A groups this month as well and afterwards..I want this so bad..and this is my last chance to get my life on track..I know you are prob swamped with people needing help..but I would so greatly apprecaite it..sounds like you guys on this thread are fighting the good fight and close to getting there...keep up the good work!! We can all do it!! I have you in my prayers..sorry for the interruption again..I pray I hear from you Robert. Thank you

[intelmetal]

simplysaucer, I am sure Robert will help you out, but I am willing to help at the same time. There will be no conflict as Robert and I have worked together on my successful sub taper. Going on 17 days without any subs. I was hooked on methadone for over 7 years at very high doses. I was addicted to opiates for 10-11 years. I started my suboxone therapy ( Induction ) May 4, 2009 and finished in 75 days total. My clean date is July 18, 2009. You could probably get it done in time for school considering your D.O.C. and the duration of use. You need to get started ASAP ! Try to start a new thread if possible.
Keep Posting !!!
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[mdg11]

Updating....Seem to be doing much better today!

I don't know, bug maybe. anyway, Wednesday he will continue on the 4.5 mg.

Should the drop to the 3.375 be just as smooth?

I'll check back in tomorrow. thank you!

[Robert_325]

I don't see him having any significant problems if he follows instructions. That's why we do this. He should do fine all the way down. God bless.