[3discsoutofwhack]

I've been on methadone for about three months for serious back pain. The nuerologist did some test on me and replied that he couldn't understand how I was able th get around, that's how bad my discs are. Any how I am on 40mg twice a day of the methadone and 120 mg day of oxycodone for breahthrough pain. The methadone does little to help my pain but it also makes me a little shakey and paranoid. I am never at ease and am always nervous and jumpy. I sweat all the time when I work and it lasts for a half hour after I stop and sit. I'm NOT LOOKING TO GET HIGH, JUST FOR THE PAIN TO STOP. Does anybody out there on methadone have any advice fo me [8]
they call me 3 discs

[mpvt]

Your taking 80mgs of methadone a day which is a blocking dose and the oxycodone will be rendered useless.You're better off talking to the doctor and either getting off the oxycodone and raising your methadone which would be the best thing to do or get off the methadone and go on the weaker oxycodone.Either way your wasting your time and money taking the two especially when your on a blocking dose of methadone.Good luck and let us know how you make out......Dave

[matthewb]

I hurd methadone is a replacement drug for heroin. And I also hurd that its got alot of side effects. Did your Dr tell you about these things.

Using OxyContin chronically can result in increased tolerance to the drug in which higher doses of the medication must be taken to receive the initial effect. Over time, OxyContin will be come physically addictive, causing a person to experience withdrawal symptoms when the drug is not present. Symptoms of withdrawal include restlessness, muscle and bone pain, insomnia, diarrhea, vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps, and involuntary leg movements.

I didnt want to scare you I just want to make sure your aware of what your getting into.

Good luck. Maybe there is a natural way to fix your back pain. Have you thought of seing a natural path doctor?



Matthew Baldwin
http://www.cchr.com/
Citizens Commission on Human Rights

[3discsoutofwhack]

Thanx for the advice, I think you are right Dave becuase I never feel any relief from mt pain from either of the drugs no matter which way I take them. I went for my 4th epidermal shot which did nothing at all. I took a test a couple of weeke ago from a nuerologist, he hooked some wires from my back to my feet and gave me electic shocks. He said my back was in bad shape but my pain Dr just keeps going with the same bull. I visit him on Friday, I will let you know how things went. take it easy
they call me 3 discs

[Cats Meow]

Dave, I believe you are partially incorrect regarding methadone as a opiate receptor antagonist, methadone is a opiate receptor agonist.

Agonists are chemicals that bind to a specific receptor to elicit a response, such as excitation or inhibition of action potentials. While you are correct stating it has a blocking effect, it only does so against euphoria in conjunction with opiate usage, the patient will receive increased analgesia without the euphoria (or so say the doctors).
Methadone is unlike drugs such as Buprenorphine (Suboxone or Subutex) they are mixed opiate receptor agonist and antagonist, Subutex (buprenorphine hydrochloride)contains no antagonist while Suboxone (buprenorphine hydrochloride and naloxone hydrochloride)contains the antagonist Naloxone.
Antagonists are chemicals that bind to a receptor and block it, producing no response and preventing other chemicals (drugs or receptor agonists) from binding or attaching to the receptor.

Now, I am slightly conflicted re methadone + opiate usage resulting in euphoric effects, I have specifically asked users if they obtained euphoria and they tell me YES indeed- the results are cumulative, which makes sense since methadone is an agonists and contains no antagonist medications such as Naltrexone or Naloxone.
So who do I believe, the drug research scientists/doctors or the methadone patient/addict who has first hand knowledge?

(as a side note)
Dave, with all due respect, I consider you a valuable, very helpful board member, I know you have helped many people with your advice as a methadone patient and advocate, I sometimes wish you weren't so enthusiastic with your advocacy for methadone, in my opinion it should only be considered as a last hope for the despaired addict, after everything else possible has failed, and only then.
~Cats




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[gettinbetterallthetime]

I am on methadone 160mg's daily and I was told(I'm in MMT)that from around 80mg's and above that methadone blocks the effect of other opiates.Not sure if that means from the high, which I think it does.I do know that MMT participators are given a higher dosage of pain meds after surgery due to the fact that our tolerance is higher.I had surgery 2 months ago and my doc told the nurse that she should give me twice to three times the normal dose of pain meds due to the fact that I was on methadone and would not respond to a regular dose.Seems like it blocks both ways to a point.My counseler at the MMT clinic says that my methadone will do nothing for pain if I am injured.Heres to hoping I don't get hurt!

[mpvt]

Hi Cat: I agree that methadone should always be used as a last resort.I didn't say that methadone was an antagonist as I know that it isn't.Once you get to 80-120mgs then it becomes difficult for other opiates to be effective.The methadone molecule is quite large compared to other opiates which makes it difficult for other opiates to get in there.Sorry I'm not very good at explaining these things,I know them but I have a hard time explaining.My back is in constant pain from surgeries and a number of ailments and the methadone keeps it under control.There are times when I get break thru pain and have to take something for it.I tried 1,000 mgs of ms contin and it didn't do a thing for me.So what my methadone doctor has come up with is,when I'm having bad break thru pain then I go down to the pharmacy and get my normal dose of methadone and then I ask for my 25mg metadol pill (methadone).So instead of taking 300mgs I take 325mgs and it helps a fair bit.I have asked both my doctor and pharmacist what would work and they both agree that once your into the blocking dose area and up then not much but more methadone will work.I hope this clears up anything that you though I was saying before.

Methadone is an extremely powerful and addictive opiate and should be treated as such.Anyone that is a patient with my methadone doctor has had to have been in rehab or detox at least twice before he see's them and you need to be addicted for a min of 5 years.He also won't take any patients that are taking benzodiazepines due to the high rate of overdose between them and methadone.I do a urine sample once a week to make sure that I'm taking what I'm supposed to.You have to remember that I along with being a chronic pain patient am also an addict so I have to follw somw different rules then a normal chronic pain patient would.......Dave

[3discsoutofwhack]

Thank you , everyone for sharing your experience. I think the methadone has some effect on blocking the high and the pain relief of the oxycodone and I also believe it blocks alot of the benefits of the Effexor ( anti-depressant) that I take. I'm not sure if the methadone is worth all of this becuase from the start of the day till the end of the day I'm still in pain. My doctor today boosted my methadone dose to 120 mg a day and lowered my oxycodone to 3 times a day for breathrough pain. I will see if this works and if it doesn't I refuse to go any higher with the methadone. I will take it day by day and trust god to the best of my ability. thank you again for all your help
they call me 3 discs

[Cats Meow]

I know you didn't say exactly that Dave, but you did say that it's blocking the Oxycontin dose and making it useless, which really is incorrect (I don't think you really meant that), nevertheless, from what I understand about Methadone all it blocks is the euphoria, and somewhat the effects of analgesia vis-ÃÂ**-vis opiates. I realize it takes 2-3 times the normal opiate dosage for the MMT patient, but it does provide assuagement of analgesia.
3discs, I find it interesting your doc has you on OC for breakthru pain, I've never heard of it used in that manner, if you're not getting relief maybe talk to him about trying you on Duragesic, or if your pain isn't constant, perhaps an Oxycodone IR would be more effective or better yet Actiq.
3D, what were you taking before started Methadone? Is your disc problem the result of an accident, have you had surgery? Does your doctor expect any amelioration of your condition?
~Cats

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[3discsoutofwhack]

Hi Cats,
Before the methadone/oycodone I was on 8omg of oxycotin and 30mg of oycodone for breakthrough but finished the script way to early, so my Dr was going to drop me as a patient but I pleaded with him not to so he put me on the methadone. I was not in an accident but years of weight lifting and manual labor cuased my condition. I never had any surgery just 4 epidural shots in the last six months. I was on the lidocain patches but no relief from them.I feel no relief from the methadone/oycodone and would love to be off both of them but do want to go through withdrawl. I am so sensitive to any reduction but not sensitive to any increase of medication. I am wondering about subutex and how that works. Do I have to decrease my meds before going on the subutex? I would love to hear your opinion as you seem very educated in the medical field
thank you
they call me 3 discs

[Cats Meow]

Your problems are very much like mine. I too have a rotten disc caused from over exertion and from working for too many years doing back breaking work and continuing to work in the same capacity until I was no longer physically capable to continue. I did years worth of PT, 10 epidural injections, hypnosis, and chiropractic manipulations in the beginning (which caused my pain to increase exponentially), basically everything possible. The Chiro kicked me out of his office and referred me to an orthopedic surgeon, the only thing he offered me was surgery.

I refused all surgery recommendations, absolutely no one I have ever talked to are better off after it, and all regret consenting to it, and I know the failure rate it like 84%, so it was out of the question. I was lucky to find a neurologist who would manage my pain, at one point I was up to 80mg of OC qid and Soma qid, plus self medicating on top of it. My doctor was willing to push the opiate ceiling further, offering Duragesic and whatever else I wanted but I declined, contemplating what would I do ten years from now. He even suggested I use methadone for pain control, which I refused, I know too much about it. The more meds I took, the more pain I seemed to have, my pain curve would always stay one step ahead no matter how much meds were consumed, eventually the solution was obvious, I had to taper my medication down, my pain level went down with it, and I found I could function much better. I eventually quit all together, and sure it was hard, I went through bad W/D's, after that was over my pain level was no worse then on my best days with major amounts of narcs. Sure pain meds work at first, but after time tolerance takes over their effect, and very few doctors are willing to push the opiate ceiling, the chronic pain patient has few choices, stay at a dose and suffer and learn to live with it, or do what I did and suffer and learn to live with it, I think it averages out the same either way, I guess it's better not being dependant on pills.

This sounds like what happened to you, except you chose to go the Methadone route. You, running out of pills early sent up a red flag, it doesn't matter to the average doctor how much pain ones in, taking more then prescribed they consider abuse, and they're deathly afraid their license will be investigated by the doctor police if they Rx too much narcs. 3discs you're still very early in methadone treatment, they may be able to increase your dose and stabilize your pain, you haven't given it enough time yet to see, it's very strong so I guess it will, you're probably missing the euphoria you use to get, you may as well forget about it, it's gone for good as long as you're on it, switching to SubO is for addicts, not chronic pain patients, and yes, you need to be in W/D for a day first. I'm not going to say you made the wrong choice going on Methadone, but it is the wrong choice IMO for anyone who's not committed to it for life.

Quitting any kind of long term opiate therapy causes withdrawal symptoms, it’s a fact of life, but Buprenophine will stop the W/D’s. I can’t tell you what you should do, except to educate yourself about chronic pain, Methadone, pain treatment, never blindly consent to any type of therapy, factor in time, and don’t enjoy your meds too much, if you do you step over the line of chronic pain/dependency into addiction. I think that’s what got you into trouble in the first place. I hope this helps.

~Cats

read this if you haven’t already

http://www.dpeg.org/treatment/methadone_withdrawal.htm


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[Melis11577]

We are asking government agencies to enact stricter guidelines in prescribing methadone for any reason. It must be mandatory that all doctors be certified and trained in the pharmacology of methadone; inpatient stays must be required during induction to methadone; all staff be extensively trained in monitoring methadone patients for symptoms of toxicity. Clinic patients should be tested for legal and illegal drugs that are taken with methadone to get “highâ€� of experience “euphoriaâ€� such as benzodiazepines, alcohol, cocaine, heroin ect… and face severe consequences / mandatory detoxification from methadone program when presenting inebriated at clinic, clinic should also document such activity as well as prevent client from driving. Take home doses for all patients receiving methadone should be eliminated thus preventing the risk of diversion or precautions such as pill safe should be implemented. http://www.thepillsafe.com/

Current statistics show that nearly 4000 people a year die from methadone. These deaths are mostly happening to pain management patients within the first 10 days of taking initial dose. Most of these deaths are related to methadone prescribed with other medications that react as additives with methadone. Diversion of methadone is a serious problem because it lands this most deadly drug on streets. Statistics also state that methadone is contributing to more deaths nationwide then heroine and cocaine.

The other families and I have created a petition that will be forwarded to the FDA to implore them to Stop Methadone Deaths. Please see the petition and you can read the numerous stories of lives this drug has taken. I have also compiled a research paper with all relevant statistics and information that you will find on the petition site. Below I have recount “my storyâ€� about how methadone forever changed me.


Sincerely,
Melissa Zuppardi

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/472711451


On June 24th 2006 I lost my fiancé (Ron) to this deadly drug prescribed by a physician with a combination of other medications that acted as additives to the Methadone. He had knee surgery and became addicted to the percocet he was prescribed. He checked himself into Greenleaf in Valdosta, GA for detoxification. Upon entering the facility he was drug tested and did not come up positive for opiates (he had stopped taking the percocet 4 days before entering the facility). On the fourth day in detox he died sometime between 2am and 1pm in the afternoon (he was never checked on in all of those hours). The night before he died he was complaining of migraines and vomiting, apparently the staff thought he was still experiencing withdrawals and was not concerned about these symptoms. The symptoms of methadone toxicity mimic withdrawal symptoms physicians and staff must be very cognizant of the complex properties and metabolization of methadone. There were many errors made in my fiancé’s death including the fact that he was given numerous amounts of additive medications such as benzodiazepines. He had only been taking percocet for about 4 months and according to the DSM IV he wouldn’t be an appropriate candidate methadone maintenance treatment.

It doesn't matter specific reasons for taking methadone but what does matter is that this medication is deadly and physicians need to more prudent in prescribing it as well as monitoring their patients while beginning treatment of any kind using Methadone. I'm not sure if Ron was given methadone for the sole purpose for detoxification from opiates or if it was a combination of pain relief associated with numerous surgeries and opiate addiction. Methadone is difficult to properly dose no matter what reason it's being used for and primarily relies on the patient’s indications of how they feel (assumedly they are being monitored). There are ways to make the administration of methadone safer, it's just a matter of putting the focus on this drug and the deadly consequences when administered incorrectly or not monitored.

Many people are dying unnecessarily at the hands of the physicians they turn to for help. Methadone deaths are rising throughout the country. Ron was 32 years old and has 2 children from a previous marriage that now do not have a father.


www.renato-capozzo.memory-of.com