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Hyrocodone M367 vs. Watson 387 help
  1. #1
    Skip is offline New Member
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    Default Hyrocodone M367 vs. Watson 387 help

    I have had the Vicodin ES 7.5/750 APAP that tread M357.
    I recently went to a different pharmacy and the vicodin generic they gave me said Watson 387 on it.

    Both of these pills are 7.5/750 APAP generics for Hydrocodone.
    So my big concern is why is it that when I take the Watson stuff, I'm don't feel it the same as the M367 and the pain relief is different???
    Is one better than the other or??
    Thanks
    SK

  2. #2
    Denny is offline New Member
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    You are not alone in your suspicion. The Watson brand of pain killers do NOT work as well as others. Endo is a safe choice and Mallincort (spelled wrong I'm sure but close) is sort of in third place. If you search the forum you will find others in agreement with me on this. You are the consumer...don't be shy about asking for a particular brand name when you get your 'scripts filled. A pharmacist who does not like you asking about brands is not worth working with anyway. Good luck..D.

  3. #3
    X-JUNKIE is offline New Member
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    Sorry,but the answer you received---IS WRONG!!!!!!
    I'll log on tomorrow with the right answer.Sorry,I have to make you wait--I have a baby to put to sleep. I'm also sorry,you were given false info.

  4. #4
    Denny is offline New Member
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    Hi Skip - Your other responder should look up the word "OPINION". Most people could easily see by how my note was worded that it is an opinion and not a text book answer! As far as I know the whole idea of an opinion is that there is no "wrong" answer. I gave you the best info. I could based on my own use and from the feedback I get from my customers during the forty hours a week I work dispensing medication at a large pharmacy. Just trying to help! Again, good luck and if nothing else you can take this to the bank... the Watson products suck!

  5. #5
    painkiller is offline Junior Member
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    I have extensive experience with different variations of Hydrocodone. Mallinckrodt or the M3XX pills seem to be the most effective for me. Watson's usually do not work as well for me, with the expection of Watson 540. Those are the most effective that I've ever had. They are 10/500 and light blue. I'd recommend trying those.
    -painkiller

  6. #6
    Skip is offline New Member
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    Well, Im convinced the watsons are terrible.. At least for my body chemistry.
    I have taken up to 5 and hardly feel any pain releif or euphoric feeling where i can take 1-2 mallinkrodt hydro ES 7.5/750 and have the pain gone etc..
    Pretty dissappointing thta these dont work and Ive paid for them.

    I alos just got this Hydrocodone after a root canal called
    Lorcet 10mg/650..
    I have no idea what they are and havent tried them yet.
    they are light blue with that says 3597 on one side and a cursive looking V on the opposite.
    I cantr seem to find it on the pill Identifier.
    I mean I know what it is but >> like to know more about it.

    Thanks for the input everyone.

    Ya know, I would rather not take anything and have no pain that to be on pain meds...

  7. #7
    tracilynn is offline New Member
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    Smile Hope this helps

    As someone who has had all three different pills, the name brand, and both generic, I will tell you that I have experienced nothing different between the three.

    I hope this helps you!
    Traci

  8. #8
    Frtwynr2 is offline New Member
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    Well it doesn't matter if it's watson or regular vicodin. It's the same ingredients = same effect. DUH

  9. #9
    benjetking is offline New Member
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    Wink watson 387

    As far as generic Hyrdrocodone goes....what you feel in the difference depends on the amount of caffeine (a-pap) in the actual batch..otherwise they are all the same! Stops the pain and lets you feel good.

  10. #10
    Cats Meow is offline Banned
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    Default

    APAP is acetaminophen, not caffeine, and all generics are not equal, but hydrocodone is usually very consistant.

  11. #11
    spikey59 is offline New Member
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    Default Listen

    Morons,
    Everyone here should do some research before randomly answering questions thinking they are right. Your ignorance is your own fault. All drug information is available on the web and drug manufacture websites. Watson, Endo, Mallinkrodt whoever have to follow the same FDA guidelines for drug approval in the US. Meaning, in order to be legally substituted as a generic for a brand name they have to show IDENTICAL blood levels, duration, etc. as the brand. Which means all "AB" rated generics will work EXACTLY the same with EXACTLY the same active ingredients. Also, there is a drug identifier ON THIS WEBSITE for use by the general public. I would recommend in the future, if you have any questions about medications ask your pharmacist or doctor, not random people on the web. They could give you wrong advice and information. Be aware of what you put into your body, it's YOUR responsibility.

    As a side note, if you have problems with one generic vs. another, it's probably in your head. The brain is easily fooled.

    -CPhT

  12. #12
    Javababe1970 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikey59 View Post
    Morons,
    Everyone here should do some research before randomly answering questions thinking they are right. Your ignorance is your own fault. All drug information is available on the web and drug manufacture websites. Watson, Endo, Mallinkrodt whoever have to follow the same FDA guidelines for drug approval in the US. Meaning, in order to be legally substituted as a generic for a brand name they have to show IDENTICAL blood levels, duration, etc. as the brand. Which means all "AB" rated generics will work EXACTLY the same with EXACTLY the same active ingredients. Also, there is a drug identifier ON THIS WEBSITE for use by the general public. I would recommend in the future, if you have any questions about medications ask your pharmacist or doctor, not random people on the web. They could give you wrong advice and information. Be aware of what you put into your body, it's YOUR responsibility.

    As a side note, if you have problems with one generic vs. another, it's probably in your head. The brain is easily fooled.

    -CPhT


    Spikey,

    I am not sure if you are aware of this or not, but this is a discussion forum. A discussion forum is where people discuss topics of interest, often sharing their experiences.

    You shared your opinion and par-took in this discussion, yet called everyone else a moron and ignorant in reference to their part in this discussion.

    People in discussion forums often discuss things. FYI, here is the definition for discuss: : "to investigate by reasoning or argument b: to present in detail for examination or consideration <discussed plans for the party> c: to talk about".

    Next time you enter into a discussion forum, why don't you try presenting your information without knocking everyone else around you? I am sure you have a lot to offer, but I think everyone can do without the name calling and superiority complex.

  13. #13
    abalone is offline New Member
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    Thumbs up Generic vs. Watson (norco)

    I have cronic knee pain and my doctor prescribed generic Norco 10/325.I prefer Watson Norco 10/325 (yellow),They seem to work and take away my pain alot better than the generic! Sincerely abalone

  14. #14
    abalone is offline New Member
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    Thumbs up

    [QUOTE=abalone;225618]I have cronic knee pain and my doctor prescribed generic Norco 10/325.I prefer Watson Norco 10/325 (yellow),They seem to work and take away my pain alot better than the generic.The only thing is I have kaiser with a $10 co-pay,I have to pay $30 for the Watson brand

  15. #15
    Blazed24sevn is offline New Member
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    Default Its all in your head

    Quote Originally Posted by abalone View Post
    I have cronic knee pain and my doctor prescribed generic Norco 10/325.I prefer Watson Norco 10/325 (yellow),They seem to work and take away my pain alot better than the generic! Sincerely abalone
    Spikey is actually correct... i am a pharmacist and FDA guidelines DO NOT allow Pharm. companies to put in any extra ingredients into there medications... so ALL the generics are the same... which means they cannot work differently and its all in your head.. Its not matter of opinion.. its matter of FACT!!! You can say this forum is about opinion, but most of your opinions are wrong and your feeding people a bunch of wrong information.. ALL GENERICS ARE THE SAME, JUST LOOK DIFFERENT. ANY DIFFERENCES YOU FEEL ARE IN YOUR HEAD... OR MAYBE BECAUSE YOUR TAKING A DIFFERENT MG!!

  16. #16
    Blazed24sevn is offline New Member
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    Default This is why you feel different!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip View Post
    I have had the Vicodin ES 7.5/750 APAP that tread M357.
    I recently went to a different pharmacy and the vicodin generic they gave me said Watson 387 on it.

    Both of these pills are 7.5/750 APAP generics for Hydrocodone.
    So my big concern is why is it that when I take the Watson stuff, I'm don't feel it the same as the M367 and the pain relief is different???
    Is one better than the other or??
    Thanks
    SK
    The reason so are feeling different is this reason.... You named 3 different medications calling them all 7.5/750 hydrocodone apap... well heres the problem. The first one you named is the M357... which is 5/500 Hydrocodone APAP, a smaller MG than the 7.5 ES. The second one you named was the Watson 387 which is the 7.5/750 APAP! Then you name the M367 WHICH IS A 10/325 APAP, a HIGHER MG than the 7.5. THIS IS WHY YOU "THINK" THE GENERICS ARE WORKING BETTER, cause what you were taking was a 10mg vicodin and not a 7.5 and the M357 is a 5mg vicodin!! Your are taking all different mg's of the drug!

  17. #17
    Blazed24sevn is offline New Member
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    Default Your wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    You are not alone in your suspicion. The Watson brand of pain killers do NOT work as well as others. Endo is a safe choice and Mallincort (spelled wrong I'm sure but close) is sort of in third place. If you search the forum you will find others in agreement with me on this. You are the consumer...don't be shy about asking for a particular brand name when you get your 'scripts filled. A pharmacist who does not like you asking about brands is not worth working with anyway. Good luck..D.
    The watson are the SAME as all others.... Each Pharm. Company makes different Hydrocodone mgs for different pills as well as different asprin levels too... but if its got the same asprin and hydrocodone in it IT WILL WORK EXACTLY THE SAME... This lady was taking a 5/500mg APAP, a 7.5/750mg APAP, and a 10/325mg APAP Hydrocodone and thinking they were all 7.5/750... THIS IS WHY THEY ALL WORK DIFFERENTLY... the watson is the 7.5.... M367 is a 10/325 and a M357 is a 5/500 apap... you learn something before you try and teach people something that is NOT EVEN TRUE!

  18. #18
    xenon10 is offline New Member
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    Default Something to consider

    The FDA rigorously defends generics as being "bio-equivalent" to the "innovator" drug. Is it? It seems it starts out that way. The FDA claims that the average variability is 4%, yet it does not require a new bio availability study to be submitted unless it is shown to be +/- 25%. From the federal regulation (42 FR 1648) SubPart B pa.320.21 "Requirement for submission for in vivo bioavailability and bioequivelence data" states (e)(2) (g) Any person holding an approved full or abbreviated new drug application shall submit to FDA a supplemental application containing new evidence demonstrating the in vivo bioavailability or bioequivalence of the drug product that is the subject of the application if notified by FDA that:"
    (1) "There are data demonstrating significant intrabatch variability, e.g.,plus or minus 25% of the bioavailability of the drug product. "

    ***So, what we have here is a bit of a shell game. Whereas the initial application is stringent, once approved, the manufacturer need only resubmit testing if the FDA "catches" it producing a drug with greater than +/- 25%. So they are correct when they say it is very close (initially), what happens after that seems very lenient. At least, that's how I read it. I have read of a study that exposed some drugs to as much as a 31% variation. I'm sorry I couldn't locate that study again.

  19. #19
    washpatech is offline New Member
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    Default Many different truths

    Okay let me try to set some stuff straight here. Alot of people are right in here. First off. The meds she is taking are different strengths. Second of all, all generics that ARE the same strength ALL have the same medicine in them. Therefore they should ALL work the same..BUT....here is the kicker. Even though different companies make generics with the same strength does NOT mean the are made exactly the same. I was a nurse for years and I was very interested in learning that the slight variations in the meds, will cause a quicker onset, absorbtion time, and lenght they will last. A persons body chemistry will ALSO contribute in this factor. Everyones body chemistry is different and even the slightest variation of a med will affect a persons body differently. So there are many truths to what everyone is saying but some people are way off in saying that it will all work the same.

  20. #20
    PassingBy is offline New Member
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    The law (FDA) states that generic versions of brand name narcotic pain killers contain 85%....

    (sources and drugs vary, but I'm of the understanding that the allowed variation is as low as 70% for some drugs and as high as 95% for others...)

    ....or more of the active ingredient. It allows for variation, which is in turn taken full advantage of by the drug manufacturers.

    This isn't made up, it's a fact.

    If you think that your generic brand of Vicodin isn't working as well as the brand name works, chances are you are probably right.

    I would think that any Pharmacist worth their salt would know that.

  21. #21
    PassingBy is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazed24sevn View Post
    Spikey is actually correct... i am a pharmacist and FDA guidelines DO NOT allow Pharm. companies to put in any extra ingredients into there medications... so ALL the generics are the same... which means they cannot work differently and its all in your head.. Its not matter of opinion.. its matter of FACT!!! You can say this forum is about opinion, but most of your opinions are wrong and your feeding people a bunch of wrong information.. ALL GENERICS ARE THE SAME, JUST LOOK DIFFERENT. ANY DIFFERENCES YOU FEEL ARE IN YOUR HEAD... OR MAYBE BECAUSE YOUR TAKING A DIFFERENT MG!!

    You're not a Pharmacist.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 04-08-2010 at 05:44 PM.

  22. #22
    merciles is offline New Member
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    You're the one full of sh*t for posting bad info deliberatley..


    From the fda website:

    Generic Drug
    A generic drug is the same as a brand name drug in dosage, safety, strength, how it is taken, quality, performance, and intended use. Before approving a generic drug product, FDA requires many rigorous tests and procedures to assure that the generic drug can be substituted for the brand name drug. The FDA bases evaluations of substitutability, or "therapeutic equivalence," of generic drugs on scientific evaluations. By law, a generic drug product must contain the identical amounts of the same active ingredient(s) as the brand name product. Drug products evaluated as "therapeutically equivalent" can be expected to have equal effect and no difference when substituted for the brand name product.


    Have a nice day
    Last edited by ddcmod; 11-27-2010 at 05:55 PM.

  23. #23
    stacyalvarez is offline New Member
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    m357 are useless pills. They do not work the same, and it is not in my head. i never knew i was taking a different brand and noticed the difference.

  24. #24
    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    All 7.5 mg pills seem to be a joke. a 5mg seems stronger than a 7.5, doesnt matter what the brand. As a previous poster put though watson 540 10mg/500 is the most effective hydro, which in my opinion is a lot better than oxycodone

  25. #25
    cowsgomoo464 is offline New Member
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    Smile Research, & common sense people


    First of all, yes ALL of these pills have a narcotic (hydrocodone) ingredient, at as well as APAP which is acetaminophen. Depending on the strength of the narcotic 5, 7.5, & 10, & the strength of APAP, 325, 500, 750 & the dosage you take, food you've consumed, your weight, & your tolerance - these factors all contribute to their effectiveness on each individual.

  26. #26
    sdwhh44 is offline New Member
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    Default Generics

    Thank you to those who are aware of their own bodies enough to realize that they are experiencing sporadic reactions to various generic drugs. I am a registered nurse, and have personally observed generic drugs fail to perform as they are intended in many, many patients over the years. (I know - the FDA claims that they are all alike - wrong!)
    I have also observed the difference between the generics and the "real thing" in myself and family members. Continue to listen to your own body, and request that your physician write DAW on your script (DAW- dispense as written) The problem is that you may end up paying more if you refuse to accept a generic.
    I found the information from PassingBy very interesting - I am inclined to believe that he/she is correct. I have taken a generic in the past that I would swear was merely a placebo ( sugar pill)! Also, any drug can react to an individual's body chemistry and not produce the desired outcome. Please do not hesitate to discuss your concerns with your physician - you know your own body better than anyone else does!!

  27. #27
    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    There are a lot of factors that go into how effective an opiate painkiller is each time you take it. How much you've eaten, how many and how long since your last dose, what time of day it is and even your mood levels! Let's also face the fact that nobody here is talking about pain reduction, what you're really saying is this one doesn't get me as high! Next time don't eat a cheeseburger right before you swallow your precious watsons you just got from your dealer.

  28. #28
    thekid0138 is offline Member
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    Default Wow alot of opinions

    Alot of people are rite correct but also alot are really wrong and also its a federal law that the manufactuer can be plus or minus 20% of the active indegreint in all medications so in some ways alot of people are misleading so it is possible some times you mite get a pill with 8.2 miligrams of hydrocodone so all in all if you are only takeing one at a time then you mite noe be getting all 10 mgs each time but all in all the batchs that are made are a certain amount of drug in each one and makes a certain amount of pills each time so all in all that is the truth i worked at abbot labs in chicago as a product maker and mixed the batches for many pills and other drug types befor i was injured and not able to work any longer any more info needed please dont hesitate to ask

  29. #29
    PsychRN11 is offline New Member
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    Smile Many good points here

    As a former Pharmacy Tech and current Registered Nurse who deals with addiction medicine as well as other mental health issues (and advocate education of safe dose escalation until someone is ready to be clean vs. forcing them) I felt my two cents may help the discussion here. Yes the amount of the active ingredients can vary in any given pill by up to 20% either way but truly it is insignificant in the long run because by the time your body has broken down the drug via first pass (metabolism by the liver), not a whole lot is really left to be converted to active ingredient (usually around half or so). The next issue is how much protein you've eaten, not just anything but protein as this is needed for the drug molecule to attach to in order to pass the acid mantle of the small intestine and go into the blood stream. The other thing is other medications you are on, some inhibit or increase the rate of absorption. You have opiate receptors throughout your whole body. This is why when one is dopesick they have diarrhea and abdominal cramps along with the rest of it, the receptors are starting to work again and a process of up regulation begins. Up or down regulation happens when a chemical is in the body at certain levels, too high your body begins to decrease the number of receptors available to receive the chemical and you develop tolerance as more is needed to have the same effects. Up regulation happens when the chemical levels drop and the receptors begin to reappear in response to lower blood levels. Our bodies make endorphins which are depleted when we use anything that triggers receptors (opiate, insulin, beta-adrenergic) because if you don't use it, you lose it. There is no trigger for the body to create it because the body doesn't need to. So the length of use, tolerance level, and body chemistry such as digestive enzymes have a lot to do with how well the drug works (or not). Personally I have found differences in some generics, for instance there is an Indian brand of lamotrigine I was given for my seizure disorder and low and behold a week later my facial seizure like activity returned, when I took it back and got another generic it was fine. Another thing to keep in mind is most companies get the base chemical from one or two sources, I know Mallinkrodt processes their own opium into hydrocodone, oxycodone, codeine,etc. and sells to the other companies.

    So after my long rambling post, are there differences? Yes. Technically they shouldn't be that noticeable but they can be. If you do get them from a pharmacy under a prescription it is beneficial to report this via the FDA's Medwatch. If people don't start telling when stuff isn't working no one will ever know. There could be a bad batch somewhere. There is always a lot of recalls going on especially since the recent issues with Ethex and their oxycodone.

    So in summary, want better absorption, eat some protein and drink something acidic, think your pills aren't as strong this go round? File a complaint. Be your own advocate because others are going to dismiss people as drug addicts just because they take opiates even if they legitimately need them.

    Hope this helps!
    primetimegrape likes this.

  30. #30
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    Default shocked

    I was shocked to find out that generic medications can differ in potency by as much as 20%. Either they are 20% stronger than the brand or 20% weaker, believe it or not. I read this recently in a phamplet at my doctor's office. I am going to pick one up when I go back and post some info. from it on here. I always thought generics were "supposed" to be the same as brand, just cheaper, and any drug manufacturer will tell u that there is no difference, but there DEF. is.

    For example, I take 2mg Xanax. I get the yellow bar pills. These are by far the strongest generic I have experienced and they work great. I noticed a huge difference with the Sandoz white four bar pills (same mg) and a brand by Mylan Alprazolam 2mg (these were actually white round pills with two lines that intersect each other on one side and I forget what is on the other side) that did not work as well as the 2mg yellow bars (there are also the "football" shaped Xanax pills, but these are not 2mg Xanax. Those work alright, not bad.. but those are 0.5mg (light orange) and 1 mg (blue) doses, but they are effective I believe overall) I began thinking it must all be in my head, but no. It is real. Different generics are stronger or weaker than the brand or against each other. This is completely unacceptable to me and for any patient. People pay $ to go to the doctor, and if companies are going to duplicate a brand pill to save ppl money they should be "telling the truth" about the potency of the medicine. I find this ridiculous and something the FDA really needs to look into because you are not imagining things. There are differences. As far as the hydrocodones go, I have noticed some slight differences. Like the yellow 10/325 are def. stronger than the white 10/325 and the light pink 7.5/325 hydrocodone is def. stronger than the Watson brand. Qualitest pink hydros work good, the ones with the italic v on one side, same with yellow hydros with italic v.

    Tramadol is another good example. The Mylan tramadol is def. stronger than the Qualitest tramadol pills. Both do work, but the Mylan are def. stronger based on an avg. 50 mg dose. I find this ridiculous, and I feel your pain buddy, literally!!!

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