[newguy2]

Hi everyone.

I was an oxycontin user, about 120-160 mg per day before i started Suboxone therapy 6 weeks ago. My doctor, who I am convinced wants me to be on this stuff forever, thinks that I am on 16mg per day, and doesn't appear interested in trying to wean me off anytime soon. I have been reading horror stories around the internet about people trying to get off suboxone.

I refused to take his advice and weaned myself down to 4mg per day, which is what I am currently at. Am I going to be able to get off of this stuff? I haven't had any W/D feelings when I drop my dosage, and I am going to try to drop to 3mg tomorrow.

Does anyone have any weaning advice for me, or a plan that maybe THEY used that could help me with the taper? I want to be off of this as quickly as possible before it gets too far out of hand (if it isn't already).

I have heard of some people going back to using for a few weeks and starting the suboxone therapy from the beginning again, this time for only a week or something. Could that work for me?

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. I am all ears.

Thanks

[Robert_325]

Congratualations on having enough sense to not listen to stupid advice. You're doing great being at 4mg. I can help you finish this if you like. I've done this a lot with subs. Here is a link explaining how I suggest using suboxone. Check it out. Then if you want me to help you let me know. If you will do as I ask you to I guarantee that we can have you done with the subs in a reasonable timeframe without a bunch of w/d problems. Don't give up and use. Read the link and post back to me. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[newguy2]

Robert, I read your link and I understand everything completely. I am all ears and eager to hear what advice you have for me to quit this suboxone.

Thank you so much for making me feel more optimistic about quitting. I was feeling very down from all the horror stories and your post gave me some hope. I will hear you out and listen to your plan to taper.

I want you to know that I only took 2mg this morning (about 12 hours ago), and I feel totally fine. I hope that it lasts, but we will see. But for now, that's what I am on. Until today, I have been taking 4mg for about 3 weeks, and 6 mg for the 2 weeks before that.

Where do you think I should go from here?

Thank you again.

[Robert_325]

Dropping from 4mg to 2mg is too much. You should not drop by anymore than 25%. You should be at 3mg for four good days. Then drop again after four days. Stay in touch. God bless.

[newguy2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Dropping from 4mg to 2mg is too much. You should not drop by anymore than 25%. You should be at 3mg for four good days. Then drop again after four days. Stay in touch. God bless.

Robert,

Sorry I could not make it on, but I did get to read your advice yesterday. I am on 3 mg and I feel good still. I did 2 monday, and 3 yesterday and today. What do you think my next move should be?

Thank you so much again for doing this. I read your other posts and people who you have helped before and it has given me so much hope! I hope that I am free and clear of ALL drugs again someday soon! God Bless you!

[Robert_325]

I think you should stay at 3mg for two more days or one more at least. Suboxone has a long half life. Sometimes w/d symptoms don't even hit until day three so you need to give each reduction in the taper time to allow for the half life. Since you did the one day at 2mg one more day should be sufficient. If you do well tomorrow, which I expect you will, drop the next day by 25% again down to 2.25mg. I know it's hard to cut a pill and be exact with a dose like that. Take two doses each one just a little over 1mg. That will be close enough for our purposes. Keep us posted. God bless.

[newguy2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I think you should stay at 3mg for two more days or one more at least. Suboxone has a long half life. Sometimes w/d symptoms don't even hit until day three so you need to give each reduction in the taper time to allow for the half life. Since you did the one day at 2mg one more day should be sufficient. If you do well tomorrow, which I expect you will, drop the next day by 25% again down to 2.25mg. I know it's hard to cut a pill and be exact with a dose like that. Take two doses each one just a little over 1mg. That will be close enough for our purposes. Keep us posted. God bless.

Robert,
Are my chances at avoiding these crazy suboxone w/d people talk about ok? I am really more scared of this drug right now than i have ever been of any other. I will gladly take the 3 another day and then try the 2.25... I saw what you did with "tired2" and I read the whole thing and I just think it was amazing! You are truly an amazing person, apparently.

Am I going to be following a plan similar to hers then? 25% reduction?.. How much longer do you think I have to go? Sorry I dont mean to sound impatient, I would just like to set some sort of goal in my mind

The weird thing about being on 3 is I have felt really good and been in a good mood and everything. Before that, I was having CRAZY mood swings and sometimes would take another 1mg or so to try to get them to go away. I just want to keep my sanity and be a better person to be around for those people that are close to me soooo bad.

[Robert_325]

Don't freak out about the dumb suboxone horror stories. Either they didn't know what they were doing or their dr didn't know what he was doing. Lots of people take more suboxone for symptoms when in reality they need less. I've never seen a medication that is over-prescribed in such high doses. You'll feel better the less your dose gets I'm willing to bet.

Yes you'll be doing a taper similar to what tired2 (Pam) was on. Pam had a tough time at first but by following instructions to the letter she flew all the way the through the taper without a glitch until the very end when we had to slow it down for a week or so. But it went perfect except for that one little thing. And she had used for decades just like I did. I never had any w/d symptoms when I did subs. That is when I came up with my taper plan that I recommend for others. The 25% reduction every four days works, plain and simple. Some people need a week rather than four days at a new dose but other than that if you follow instructions you'll end up clean with relatively no symptoms to speak of.

You can figure it yourself. If you're at 3mg now and you reduce every four days all the way down to .5mg, then start skipping days you can add up the days. You're probably going to be somewhere around a month, maybe a little longer. That is if you are like most which I would suspect that you are.

Do as you're asked to do and you'll be totally clean in the fastest time possible without having w/d problems. That is the first priority when I do this to try and make it as symptom-free as possible. Just keep us posted how you're doing. God bless.

[newguy2]

Hi all.

Robert,

I am on 2.5 since Friday. I did as you said and dropped my doseage 25% after 4 days. I still feel ok.. I take my dose in the morning before work, and Friday I started getting a headache and was really, really irritable the rest of the night. I feel better today. I almost felt as if I didnt need to take it this morning, but obviously I did anyways.

I will keep on this track and in a few more days I should be down to 2mg hopefully. Thank you for your help so far. To this point, the taper seems to be working like you said it would!

These suboxone Doctors need to talk to you.

[bev49]

I'd like to weigh in here. If you listen to Robert, everything will work out. I am a DECADES long user of opiates including heroin and many years on meth. I switched to sub with no problem. Except that the doc wanted me to start on 32 mgs. I didnt do that but started on 16. I couldn't sleep, was nervous as hell and only when I dropped from 16 to 8 and then 8 to 4 did I start feeling fine. I have now gotten myself down to 1 mg. 1x a day and sometimes a smaller piece. My horrifying fear is getting off altogether but I want it alot. Time will tell in my case. You, newguy, if you follow Robert's plan, you should and will be fine,

[newguy2]

Robert,

I am on 1.5 as of right now... I still feel ok, and although you told me not to freak out about other people's crazy horror stories with sub w/d - I still am...

Anyways, I really don't have any facts based on my own feelings to worry as of yet. I have had no problems with the taper at all, untill the other night. I have been taking my doseage at once, in the morning, and that's it; that usually takes place around 7-8am.. Well, the other night I had what I think was a panick attack. My head and an empty feeling, my mind was wandering, and thoughts were racing.

I took a little bit of Xanax to chill me out and hoped I would feel better. I know that you aren't supposed to interact Xanax and Sub; however, I do so in as responsible manner as possible. I only take it as needed, which is not daily or anything, and I don't take much. Anyways, after about 20 minutes I felt 100% back to normal.

I don't know if what happened was in my head or what, because I made it through the night, woke up feeling o.k. still, and took my next sub dose feeling great ever since. I have even decreased my doseage and been o.k. for two days.

Just wanted to see if that occurance is something that I should expect to see again, and if it means I'm supposed to up my Sub doseage again? What do you think, Robert?

Anyways, I'm making headway and I feel like I'm almost there. Is it true that jumping off at .5 is really the hardest? I just want to brace myself here.

[Robert_325]

newguy ... you were at 2.5mg just a few days ago and you're at 1.5mg now. That's jumping down quickly. Make sure you wait four days before tapering or you WILL have problems. Not saying to stop tapering just take your time. You're so close to the end that there is no reason to push anything now. When did you go to 1.5mg? Need to know how many days you've been at 1.5mg. I'm trying to determine if that was the reason you needed the xanax. God bless.

[newguy2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

newguy ... you were at 2.5mg just a few days ago and you're at 1.5mg now. That's jumping down quickly. Make sure you wait four days before tapering or you WILL have problems. Not saying to stop tapering just take your time. You're so close to the end that there is no reason to push anything now. When did you go to 1.5mg? Need to know how many days you've been at 1.5mg. I'm trying to determine if that was the reason you needed the xanax. God bless.

Robert,

I did wait the 4 days.. I started the taper on Monday the 13th... waited 4 days, went to 2.5 on that Friday (I missed the 2.25 part). Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon, I did 2.5. On Tuesday this week, went to 2- Tues, Wed, Thur, Fri at 2mg.. Today im on 1.5.. It was thursday night i had my little freak out episode...

No problems since then.. I know it's probably somewhat of a problem that I got in a habit of taking my doses once a day. Now I'm afraid to split them because I feel like my body wouldn't like that.

What do you think, Robert? Should I expect more problems? raise my dose for another round? And could you let me know what to expect at my jump to .5 day skipping and eventually the last dose? Do you think I can do this without missing work?

Sorry to bombard you with questions.. I really need to stop reading the sub w/d horror posts on other sites.. It makes me feel much better knowing that you are here and others like you that did it and made it through. I'm really thankful for your advice, both to me and to others which I have read and received so much education from. I pray for the day I will not be dependent upon any form of pills. I can't wait.

Thanks for getting back to me.

[Robert_325]

You're right. I get going too fast sometimes. I misfigured the days typing while I'm thinking.

Don't raise your dose but lets leave it like it is through the weekend. I want you to be feeling good pretty much all the time before reducing again. NO you shouldn't be expecting problems.

When you get under 2mg we sometimes start to use a little sliver if we have to. As you're trying to put your four days together if you have w/d symptoms you can take a .25mg - .5mg sliver to smooth out. But then you start over accumulating four days again when you take a sliver. Talk to me before doing that if you can. You don't want to make a habit out of it but it can be necessary sometimes at a really small dose. Hope that helps. God bless.

[newguy2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

You're right. I get going too fast sometimes. I misfigured the days typing while I'm thinking.

Don't raise your dose but lets leave it like it is through the weekend. I want you to be feeling good pretty much all the time before reducing again. NO you shouldn't be expecting problems.

When you get under 2mg we sometimes start to use a little sliver if we have to. As you're trying to put your four days together if you have w/d symptoms you can take a .25mg - .5mg sliver to smooth out. But then you start over accumulating four days again when you take a sliver. Talk to me before doing that if you can. You don't want to make a habit out of it but it can be necessary sometimes at a really small dose. Hope that helps. God bless.

Robert, thanks man... Here's where I'm at today.. Yesterday was my first dose of 1.5mg.. I felt great the whole day, but that night, I felt extrememly irritable. This seems to be the cue for me that things aren't right. I don't get actual withdrawal symptoms and don't thnk I have at all since being on SUBS. What I feel is a strange head buzz at times, and the strong desire to be left alone and for noone to talk to me. If that's not given to me, I feel like I'm going to explode!!! Anyways, I sucked it up, didn't take a sliver, and slept through the night just fine. Woke up feeling a little fuzzy, but took my 1.5mg, and I'm feeling 100% again.

I'm getting ready to leave for church and have a busy outdoor day planned, so hopefully I'll be back on tonight to report that I still feel good I really feel so much more optimistic now..

So since I have felt some issues already at 1.5, my thought was give it another day or so to see if I can stabalize. If I do, I'll wait for you to tell me when to drop again (after I finish X amount of days with no bad feelings). Does that sound O.K., or do you recommend upping it now?

I'll be checking the site from my phone throughout the day, so I'll be looking forward to your reply..

And from the bottom of my heart, Robert, God Bless you and the work you do on these boards. We are all so very lucky to have you.

Thanks.

[newguy2]

Robert, I hope you haven't forgotten about me! I know u have your hands full with peoples problems on here.

I am now on day 4 of 1.5. I have not had to take a sliver but in the evenings i do feel irritable like I told you before, and I just feel like a pressure in my head. I wake up feeling a little fuzzy but it's all bearable. I don't think I'm ready to decrease tomorrow, but I would like to know your thougts on how I've been feeling. It could be in my head because none of what I feel (when i do feel weird) resembles W/D. I can't really explain it. I feel totally fine this moment, but like I said at night before bed and in the morning, just a little funky.

Should I stay at 1.5 a few days till I don't feel different at all? Drop to 1.0 tomorrow as scheduled? Or raise my dose? Please let me know why you think, and if what I'm feeling is normal.

Thank you.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by newguy2

Robert, I hope you haven't forgotten about me! I know u have your hands full with peoples problems on here.

I am now on day 4 of 1.5. I have not had to take a sliver but in the evenings i do feel irritable like I told you before, and I just feel like a pressure in my head. I wake up feeling a little fuzzy but it's all bearable. I don't think I'm ready to decrease tomorrow, but I would like to know your thougts on how I've been feeling. It could be in my head because none of what I feel (when i do feel weird) resembles W/D. I can't really explain it. I feel totally fine this moment, but like I said at night before bed and in the morning, just a little funky.

Should I stay at 1.5 a few days till I don't feel different at all? Drop to 1.0 tomorrow as scheduled? Or raise my dose? Please let me know why you think, and if what I'm feeling is normal.

Thank you.

I haven't forgotten you I promise. That one post kind of got away from me though. It doesn't happen often with the number I receive each day.

I do think you should remain at 1.5mg at least two more days as in through Thursday. Then we'll shoot for dropping again on Friday IF all is well. It's important at this level that you feel good at least for a few days before dropping or it will haunt you the rest of the taper.

You're doing good. Just do the next right thing each day and it will all take care of itself. You're getting better each day. Won't be long and you'll be off the subs too. God bless.

[newguy2]

Hi Robert; and anyone else reading,

I just wanted you to know that I dropped to 1mg yesterday, and a few days ago, I also started splitting my doses up in 2 per day. I was just taking my dose one time per day, and I was concerned about the switch. I felt a little funky at first, but now I feel good - I wish I had started taking two seperate doses a long time ago. You mentioned that will help me with the taper, how so?

I just did my second dose of .5. I mentioned that the problems I have had thus far are irritability and pressure in my head. I did wake up the other night with a terrible headache, but again, to this point, i have had no actual withdrawal symptoms. Since I have dropped to 1mg, I feel pretty good overall. I have been very active - excercising, mountain biking, etc... That does seem to help my moods a lot and makes me feel better.

Once I drop down to .5 mg, Robert, should I do .25 twice a day? When does the whole 2 doses daily come into play in the taper?

Thanks for your help I'm almost there, I think.

Robert, when all is said and done, and I'm off this medication and pills and I go back to living a normal life - Will all this come back to haunt me someday? Is it likely I did some sort of permanent damage to my psyche or something? That is something that i've been fearing. I feel changed. I feel like I am not the happy go lucky person I once was. I used to be sooo happy and crazy (in a good way) and excited about everything. I feel like I've lost all that. I have grown apart from so many people... I stay away from most people because I really don't like talking anymore. My girlfriend whom I live with has had a really hard time dealing with me and all this, it's all been aweful to her - I haven't been a good boyfriend to her. Among all the emotional problems, I have virtually no sexual desire whatsoever anymore, and I know this is about just getting clean from the drugs, but do you think that will go back to normal someday, too? That part of this whole scenario is hurting her the most, I think... She thinks I am not attracted to her and all that anymore, and even though I have shown her posts by people going through the same thing, she refuses to believe its the suboxone. . Do you think i'll come back to normal someday? I know this is just a matter of opinion here, but I would really love to hear yours.

Thank you.

[Robert_325]

newguy .... of course you'll be different after you've been clean for some time. I'm not even the same person I was when I first got clean. We use for a long time but expect to recovery immediately when we get clean. I say it every day here. Being clean is a process not an event. Stopping using drugs is just the first part of it. Don't use no matter what and it will get better every day. God bless.

[newguy2]

Robert,

I ended up doing great on 1mg. No problems whatsoever. Today is the day I drop to .5. I just took .25 a minute ago. Could you let me know how this next few days is supposed to go?

Am I right to take .25 morning and night? Do I drop to .25 in four days or do I start skipping days on .5? I don't really understand what skipping days will entail so could you explain that a bit please?

Thank you so much, again, for your help so far. I don't know where I'd be without your guidance, but I'm sure it wouldn't be .5 a day! I will look forward to your response and I will also report back with how .5 is working out.

[Robert_325]

Remember that you are doing a 50% reduction in your dose. It's possible about the second day you could feel noticeable symptoms. Let me know if that happens. You can always take a .25mg sliver but that sets you back a few days. It's okay occasionally to be agressive to the point of feeling a symptom. Then we know how far you can successfully go before feeling the w/d. Don't make plans about the next reduction yet. Let's get through this one first. God bless.

[newguy2]

Hi Robert,

I am on .25 today! I did really well on the .5 and never had any problems. Well, I've had a couple headaches, but tylenol quick release extra strength and excederin migraine worked wonders. Those headaches are very much curable, thank god.

That pressure I kept telling you about earlier on in the taper has gone away completely, and I feel completely normal now for the most part day and night. Switching to taking two even doses in a day helped me a lot I think. I think my irritibility is getting a little better, but I'm still sort of just in a depressed mode. But physically, I feel like I'm doing really well! I just did .125 a couple hours ago and I'm going strong.

Another thing I have noticed throughout the taper is that somedays early on in a new dose, my pupils get large towards the end of the work day before I take my evening dose. I know that's a sign of W/D, but I don't feel any actual W/D symptoms besides having the huge pupils. I had big pupils the other day and had a headache at the same time. I took a ********load of aspirin and drank a strongly caffeinated beverage. The headache went away and then I took my evening suboxone a short while later and pupils went back to normal. I made sure that my pupils stayed normal throughout the days before dropping down to the next subsequent dose.

Robert, I will let you know how this .25 business goes. I plan on having as good of a weekend as possible. I have lost some energy, but it's not too bad. Work days suck, I don't want to do much anything at all by the time I get home, but it seems to be getting better. I hope to begin skipping days soon and be done with all this.

Bev, if you are still reading - I pray that you are still doing well and that you can summon up the strength to finish your taper. It sounds to me that you have done an excellent job to this point. I didn't think that I'd be able to quit either, but I'm really starting to realize that I'm doing this. I can't believe im on .25. Two weeks ago, I was on 4mg and felt hopeless about tapering off. I have actually felt BETTER since I started tapering. I feel some sort of normalcy coming back into my life. Thank you for your message before.

Well, hopefully I'll be back with good news, Robert. Thank you so much for walking me through this. I hope people who have any doubts about what you are capable of doing for them read this and the many other threads in which you helped people. I want to get your message about Suboxone out there to the world, it MUST be heard.

Thanks guys.

[tired2]

Hi newguy...sounds like you are doing well...most people split doses but do whatever Robert says he's great...I ended up smashing my pill into powder and dividing into 1mg piles then cutting them into 4 .25 piles which I split to .12 etc..so my doses were more accurate ..then put on an creased index card and then take your dose under your tongue...but I see you are doing fine as is just thought I would let you know that this works well...

I have been 8 weeks Opiate Free Sunday and felt great no desires to use .However I'm tapering from a long addiction of benzo's with Robert which is a little rough but I can't wait to put all this behind me.

I'm not sure when you read my thread but I posted the other day something you may want to read.
Later,Pam

[bev49]

Newguy, I am definitely still here and reading your thread with much interest and good feelings. Thanks for the shoutout. You're doing phenomenally well. You moved behind your fear to a good outcome. It's easy for me to tell you and others to move beyond the fear when I don't (yet) seem able to do so. My history is a little different. Im an old lady (well middle old anyway). I've been addicted for over 40 years so my fear is a bit stronger. But by reading you and all the other threads of people who are either getting there or have already gotten there, I am summoning up my inner strength (wherever it is) and I waiting for the day I'll ask Robert to help me finish. Keep up YOUR good work and stay strong.

[bev49]

Pam, 8 weeks opiate free. WOW!! Horray for you!! You are definintely one of the people who's threads I follow religiously. I'm interested in you and also interested in trying to get some sort of Karma or vibe so that I too will be where you're at now.

[newguy2]

Bev, I know everyone has different struggles. I think that where you are right now is amazing after all those years. I think you should be really proud that you have come this far. I'm sure that you will know when the right time for YOU is to come off, and I'm willing to bet that you'll do great when you do.

Pam, I was truly inspired by your thread and I think any suboxone user or anyone considering using it should read it. I have followed it closely and I think youre awesome! Thanks for the advice, I agree that's the easiest way. Great minds must think alike cuz that's exactly how I've been doing it! Business card and all. Lol. Going to check out that post now. Talk to you all later.

[newguy2]

Pam, I read your last post on the suboxone thread. I agree completely an I too let negative posts scare me for a while. I'll admit I'm still nervous about what lies ahead in terms of side effects. I read you're suffering from headaches. I get them too. Has that gotten better for you? I know that your experiences do not necessarily have any bearing on mine, but these headaches seem to be a common thing with suboxone and tapering off. Have you had any problems besides the headaches? Mine go away with lots of Tylenol or excedrine.

Thank you again for the helpful advice.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by newguy2

Pam, I read your last post on the suboxone thread. I agree completely an I too let negative posts scare me for a while. I'll admit I'm still nervous about what lies ahead in terms of side effects. I read you're suffering from headaches. I get them too. Has that gotten better for you? I know that your experiences do not necessarily have any bearing on mine, but these headaches seem to be a common thing with suboxone and tapering off. Have you had any problems besides the headaches? Mine go away with lots of Tylenol or excedrine.

Thank you again for the helpful advice.

Headaches have nothing specific/exclusive to do with subutex or suboxone anymore than the fact that they are both opiate medications. It's usually our past behavior causing the headaches.

When you taper, cold turkey or however you decide to stop taking opiates almost everyone gets a headache. It's part of the deal. If you taper properly they will be minimal but almost everyone gets headaches after we trash ourselves for years.

Do the next right thing and don't use. Then the negative side effects of drug abuse will dissipate every single time. If you're having headaches take some excedrin migraine, aleve or whatever works as long as it isn't an opiate. God bless.

[newguy2]

Ok Robert. Todays my first skip day. No problems on the .25 besides big pupils on the first day and a little pressure. No headaches or anything. I am skipping today entirely. I would like to tell you that last night my girlfriend kicked me out of bed because I was tossing and turning the entire night and we both had to be awake at 530. So I slept in another room. She described it as a fish that was just caught and dumped out of the water. She said I moved that much. Of course, i don't recall any of this and I actually slept ok and feel pretty energized this morning. I do remember Pam indicating she had similar problems with keeping her husband awake, so Pam if that's true could you update me on that and when in your case it subsided for you? I'm assuming it's RLS or something. My legs were sore yesterday for no reason but only slightly and I assumed it was from exercising.

Just wanted to give the update and see if I should just continue on as planned regardless of my strange sleeping habits last night. I am currently planning on going through with it because otherwise I feel ready.

Thanks.

[Robert_325]

If you feel okay go for it. I still have those sleep episodes and it's been a long time since I used. Such is life. Just do it. God bless.