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Help with intolerance of pain killers
  1. #1
    jsremus is offline New Member
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    Default Help with intolerance of pain killers

    Hi,

    I have just been told that I need shoulder surgery. However, I am intolerant to the common pain killers (vicodin, percocet, darvocet, demerol - hope I'm spelling those right). They all cause vomiting for me - the last time I was on them I lost 20 lbs in 2 weeks & almost had to be hospitalized for dehydration.

    So I'm trying to figure out what alternatives I have, and what other drugs might be on my "bad" list.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated. Oxycontin (sp?) was suggested to me, but I don't know much about it.

    Thanks,

    -J

  2. #2
    marianna is offline Junior Member
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    Okay, the bad news is that OxyContin contains oxycodone, which is also the active ingedient in Percocet, so it is very likely that the Oxycontin will make you sick as well.

    Another alternative is tramadol (Ultram) or tramadol with acetaminophen (Ultracet). Not quite as effective as the narcotics and still has the potential to make you sick.

    Another suggestion is to let your doctor know your history and they can prescribe a pill to stop the nausea.

    Good luck

  3. #3
    seeker2k is offline New Member
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    I have been on Tramadol for over 60 days, and it in my opinion is absolutely worthless, and the doctor won't change it. I'm going to a pain specialist in 3 weeks, but I wouldn't sugest Tramadol for anything as simple as a everyday headache.

  4. #4
    stars1234 is offline New Member
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    I am sorry to hear of your dilema.

    I have pretty much the same thing, except the meds don't make me really sick, but are highly, ineffective--as I hold on to the doctor's table while they do proceedures, telling me this is strange, the pain medicine should have worked! (It will finally kick in a hour or more after leaving the office. At least my dentist now knows to give me extra medication and WAIT.)

    The last time I had surgery, the anesthesiologist, gave me a local before putting in the IV. I had already warned him that I don't respond to pain meds very well, that he should count on them taking at least twice as long to work as usual.

    He waited a bit and then said, "you'll feel a little pressure." WRONG!. I felt searing, burn and about hit the roof. He apologized, told me I was right and he should have listend a little more closely, then worked as quickly as he could to get the IV started.

    I am supposing your question is what do you do after the surgery, since the IV's used during surger are different from pain meds that youd normally take home.

    For me, Ultram was useless, unless I took it in sufficent quanity to make me ill and not be able to stand. Darvocet didn't do much either, but Darvon does--it is hard to come by though. It and tramadol, will knock most pain out, without making you sick, but i believe they are only available in a shot--and of course, they are controlled substances.

    Alternatives you might try after surgery, if the moderate stuff doesn't work, is to go to the heavy duty opiods.

    (I've never gotten a high from any of these, my doctors tell me that I'm missing out on what many people enjoy--but it helps me not get addicted, dependent though, is another thing.)

    Oxycontin has a bum rap from its missuse and the doctors are also afraid to prescribe it since it is watched so closely. But if Percoset did anything at all, I understand that Oxycontin is essential a longer acting percoset.

    All these medicines can be highly addictive, but usually if your taking them for pain relief, you won't wind up with an addictin, but some dependency--and when you come off them, have to come off slowly.

    At the pain clinic I go to, after they tried every thing else, they moved me into the true opiods:

    1) MS Contin (morphin, which didn't stop the pain).
    2) Methadone, Methadose (same characteristics as >>>>>>, so I am told, but without any high, just pain relief. this actually worked for me a bit, until I woke up one morning and couldn't get my feet in my shoes--I had gained over 50 pounds in six months.)

    3) Duragesic (Fentanyl) patch. The patch is worn with the principal that the body will give off a certain amount of heat and that e=heat wil release the medicine as it is supposed to. But bodies change, temps vary for many reasons, stress and pain being big ones. that is worn, with the principle being that it will gradually does out

    However, with the Duragesic patch, once we found the right level, it actually made me stop hurting--(torn ligaments and nerves). It was a miracle. It is also about 40x more potent than morphine and must be used with great care.

    I would recommend the Fentanyl as a last resort. I heard that it is what they give lame race horses, to keep them racing, through pain. At 40x stronger than morphine and since it is absorbed right into the blood, I think it would relieve just about anything and not make you sick.

    (Stepping back, there are good things to be said for warmth and Lidocaine patches and even plain old asprin--if your stomach can take it.)

    So there are my 3: MS Contin, Methadone, and Duragesic.

    Of them, the only one I had a sick stomach with was the MS Contin, but that went away after a few days.

    Right now, I'm back on Methadone at a low dose. It is unlike other medicines that have a quick onset and decline. It takes a week or more to build up and then it remains at that level, giving constant pain relief. If you go that route, you'd need something in the short term, until the methadone kicked in--a small duragesic patch might work will for that.

    If you're worried about the surgery, an injection of Verced, prior to the IV or anasthesia being give, will usually stop all memory of the proceedures.

    In one operation I had, they told me I was going to feel a little pricke, some warmth and see if could count down. I remember getting to 97, then waking up and telling my wife that we'd better schedule the procedure for another time, since the verced had worn off--only it was four hours later, and everything was finished.

    There is something out there that will work for you. Even some elector shock to the the nerve that transmits the pain signals, would block them.

    I know this has been a long answer, but I hope you feel like you can ask your doc more questions. Remember too, the doctor works for you. It's not the other way around. So stand up to him/her and get them to give you something that works--and phenegren (sic) will control nausea by the way.

    Studies have proven that orthopedic as well as any kind of pain, the body feels fast when it can slow dow

    Good luck,
    Bob

    Music is the food of love.

  5. #5
    used2bok is offline New Member
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    I used to get sick from all narcotic pain relievers too. Cold sweat, vomiting, stomach pain, my face would turn pure white. After I crushed my arm I would only take Motrin until it had my high blood pressure totally out of control. Now I can take the pain killers without getting sick at all. I had to start out with a very small amount and work my way up to a whole pill. I took Phenergan while I was getting my body used to the pain pills. The Phenergan makes you [u]</u>really sleepy.

  6. #6
    natron is offline New Member
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    You could also look into Nubain. It's highly addictive and long term use would not be suggested. It is very effective for treatment of pain however, and worth looking into IMO.

    "changing physique's, one cell at a time" AVANT

  7. #7
    sif
    sif is offline New Member
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    I take perc 5mg, but if i up it to 10 I get a rash. What would be better?

    Dee

  8. #8
    claude is offline New Member
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    Bob, I have to take exception with your statement that methadone is similar to >>>>>> but without the high. That is why we have so much bad press with the proper use of methadone and why there are so many myths and stigmas. Methadone is not a substitute for >>>>>> there is no comparison, it is a long acting analgesic in which you don't get a tolerance buildup unlike with the other opioids. They market aspirin as a wonder drug well Imo you can put the same handle to methadone as it helps with depression,bi-polar disease,chronic pain relief,stabilizes patients with a chemical imbalance due to opiate addiction and the opiate doesn't have to be >>>>>>. There is a flood of patients with addiction to opiate pain pills that need to be stabilized on methadone.
    Don't take any of this personally it's just being a methadone advocate for so long with I see or hear something that is part of the myths then I find it my responsibility to make any necessary corrections.

    claude

    claude hopkins
    nama/nj
    certified patient advocate

  9. #9
    Nadia is offline New Member
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    I am also very sensitive to narcotic medications, and I have ended up in the ER many times trying to take them, and having severe nausea, dizziness, and in cold sweats. I have chronic pain and the only drug I have ever had success with is Nubain. I do take it with Phenergan, so I will not get the nausea, and I have also been told that if you get constipated with a narcotic, your body will reject it by vomiting, so that it clears your system. So I also take a stool softener, to eliminate that issue,and drink lots of water. I know that some Docs do not even consider Nubain a narcotic, while others guard the stuff like it is gold and have acused me of being an "addict". LOL Docters can be such a pain in the rear- not to offend anyone. Thank God, I finally found a Doc who believed me when I say I really cannot take ALL the other various narcotics available. If you are not familiar with Nubain, it is injectable, but you may use a sub -cue injection, which is a small and short needle, in the fatty tissue, it is not really painful. I hope this helps,. I am interested in knowing if there is anyone else who uses Nubain for Chronic pain, and how it has helped, because I knowit is very uncommon to do this and I do not know the possible long term effects besides dependency.Good Luck, God Bless, Nadia

  10. #10
    staarz unlimited is offline New Member
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    Hi,
    Thanks for the information. However, my dilema is with medications such as ma juang and lidocaine. I did visit a dentist about 4 days ago and he did localize the surgical area and the reation was horrific. The reaction this time, however, was quite minimal but it was enough to cause me problems. Most of the e-mails i read had to do with opiate derivatives and i have absolutely no problem with opiate derivatives. [i] Opiates are not the registering problem. Fentanyl, sounds like a possiblilty but if it is stronger than morphine (opiate), i cant use it because of my specific allergy. The side affects of opiates register in me totally different.

    Please don't misunderstand, i need all the help i can get and my time is limited. I can't live with this pain much longer

  11. #11
    Sue9C is offline New Member
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    I have very bad allergies and Naproxen Sodium has worked wonders for me.

    Susan Cherry

  12. #12
    MorphineAngel is offline New Member
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    Ok, well.... your doctor can prescribe medicine for people who can't keep down medicine - if that makes any sense. OXYCONTIN will make you a heck of a lot sicker than the more subtle pain killers do, not to mention the severe addiction that comes along with it. Tell your doc that pills make you sick and that you need something to subside that. You shouldn't be expected to suffer in pain cause of your belly! I think it is the same stuff they give to people with motion sickness. I know this because my grandfather has the same problem - and it helped him. Good Luck!![^]

    [^]
    quote:Originally posted by jsremus

    Hi,

    I have just been told that I need shoulder surgery. However, I am intolerant to the common pain killers (vicodin, percocet, darvocet, demerol - hope I'm spelling those right). They all cause vomiting for me - the last time I was on them I lost 20 lbs in 2 weeks & almost had to be hospitalized for dehydration.

    So I'm trying to figure out what alternatives I have, and what other drugs might be on my "bad" list.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated. Oxycontin (sp?) was suggested to me, but I don't know much about it.

    Thanks,

    -J

  13. #13
    MorphineAngel is offline New Member
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    PS ---- Fentynal Duragesic will make you sick as hell if it is prescribed in too strong a dose! That stuff is what is a lot like >>>>>>!!!

  14. #14
    Anonymous Guest

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    quote:Originally posted by stars1234

    I am sorry to hear of your dilema.

    I have pretty much the same thing, except the meds don't make me really sick, but are highly, ineffective--as I hold on to the doctor's table while they do proceedures, telling me this is strange, the pain medicine should have worked! (It will finally kick in a hour or more after leaving the office. At least my dentist now knows to give me extra medication and WAIT.)

    The last time I had surgery, the anesthesiologist, gave me a local before putting in the IV. I had already warned him that I don't respond to pain meds very well, that he should count on them taking at least twice as long to work as usual.

    He waited a bit and then said, "you'll feel a little pressure." WRONG!. I felt searing, burn and about hit the roof. He apologized, told me I was right and he should have listend a little more closely, then worked as quickly as he could to get the IV started.

    I am supposing your question is what do you do after the surgery, since the IV's used during surger are different from pain meds that youd normally take home.

    For me, Ultram was useless, unless I took it in sufficent quanity to make me ill and not be able to stand. Darvocet didn't do much either, but Darvon does--it is hard to come by though. It and tramadol, will knock most pain out, without making you sick, but i believe they are only available in a shot--and of course, they are controlled substances.

    Alternatives you might try after surgery, if the moderate stuff doesn't work, is to go to the heavy duty opiods.

    (I've never gotten a high from any of these, my doctors tell me that I'm missing out on what many people enjoy--but it helps me not get addicted, dependent though, is another thing.)

    Oxycontin has a bum rap from its missuse and the doctors are also afraid to prescribe it since it is watched so closely. But if Percoset did anything at all, I understand that Oxycontin is essential a longer acting percoset.

    All these medicines can be highly addictive, but usually if your taking them for pain relief, you won't wind up with an addictin, but some dependency--and when you come off them, have to come off slowly.

    At the pain clinic I go to, after they tried every thing else, they moved me into the true opiods:

    1) MS Contin (morphin, which didn't stop the pain).
    2) Methadone, Methadose (same characteristics as >>>>>>, so I am told, but without any high, just pain relief. this actually worked for me a bit, until I woke up one morning and couldn't get my feet in my shoes--I had gained over 50 pounds in six months.)

    3) Duragesic (Fentanyl) patch. The patch is worn with the principal that the body will give off a certain amount of heat and that e=heat wil release the medicine as it is supposed to. But bodies change, temps vary for many reasons, stress and pain being big ones. that is worn, with the principle being that it will gradually does out

    However, with the Duragesic patch, once we found the right level, it actually made me stop hurting--(torn ligaments and nerves). It was a miracle. It is also about 40x more potent than morphine and must be used with great care.

    I would recommend the Fentanyl as a last resort. I heard that it is what they give lame race horses, to keep them racing, through pain. At 40x stronger than morphine and since it is absorbed right into the blood, I think it would relieve just about anything and not make you sick.

    (Stepping back, there are good things to be said for warmth and Lidocaine patches and even plain old asprin--if your stomach can take it.)

    So there are my 3: MS Contin, Methadone, and Duragesic.

    Of them, the only one I had a sick stomach with was the MS Contin, but that went away after a few days.

    Right now, I'm back on Methadone at a low dose. It is unlike other medicines that have a quick onset and decline. It takes a week or more to build up and then it remains at that level, giving constant pain relief. If you go that route, you'd need something in the short term, until the methadone kicked in--a small duragesic patch might work will for that.

    If you're worried about the surgery, an injection of Verced, prior to the IV or anasthesia being give, will usually stop all memory of the proceedures.

    In one operation I had, they told me I was going to feel a little pricke, some warmth and see if could count down. I remember getting to 97, then waking up and telling my wife that we'd better schedule the procedure for another time, since the verced had worn off--only it was four hours later, and everything was finished.

    There is something out there that will work for you. Even some elector shock to the the nerve that transmits the pain signals, would block them.

    I know this has been a long answer, but I hope you feel like you can ask your doc more questions. Remember too, the doctor works for you. It's not the other way around. So stand up to him/her and get them to give you something that works--and phenegren (sic) will control nausea by the way.

    Studies have proven that orthopedic as well as any kind of pain, the body feels fast when it can slow dow

    Good luck,
    Bob

    Music is the food of love.

    Bob- I just spent last night in the ER for an adverse reaction to Demerol. Turns out my mom has had heart failure in the past when on it. My pupils dilated HUGE (not what opiates do, as we all know) I felt trippy and weird and just WRONG. So I decided to go to the ER.
    They talked to me about my chronic pain, possible fibro, bone spurs and arthritis, and applied a 25 mcg Fentanyl patch.

    8 Hours later- I FEEL NOTHING not one thing. I must be completely tolerant to opiates. I am crying from the freakin pain and even FENTANYL doesnt help?? what is WRONG with me?

    susie

    Watch for sticks and stones
    Stumbling blocks in piles
    Life is one big road,
    Miles on top of miles
    So blessed be the soul,
    That always remains a child

  15. #15
    ChgoSurfer is offline New Member
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    As a chronic pain patient with cervical radiculopathy, my experience has also been unfavorable with Tramadol; however, it is not going to work for a headache under any circumstances, nor are any of the opiods helpful for simple headache: what you want then are the prostaglandins generated by Tylenol, Advil, aspirin, etc. and perhaps some caffeine to act as a vasoconstrictor (this naturally does not apply to those afflicted with migraine and cluster headaches.) I have had to rotate on hydromorphone (Dilaudid) and oxycodone 15mg. (it is also available all by itself, without the acetaminophen, and I too have experienced nausea as a serious side effect: we tried pills (Compazine) but tthey wwre ineffective and caused some dysphoria.

    Then I tried marijuana, smoked in a pipe at the time I take my meds, and again at two hour intervals if the nausea is still problematic. I never thought that I would be resorting to marijuana for legitimate medical purposes--it always sounded rather exotic and 'out there' to me. But was I ever wrong! It has been an absolute Godsend. If you have a child or friend who has access to it, I suggest that you purchase some high-grade cannabis: one ounce should be enough for a fair trial. You can use a vaporizer which eliminates the smoke, or bake it in brownies for a longer-lasting effect.

    Incidentally, any enlightened neurologist or pain management doctor will trust your complaints. Usually they can be quantified anyway, so he has good science on his side to help him diagnostically in case the local DEA people decide to make pests of themselves again.

    Many of today's physicans--good, responsible, caring doctors--are intimidated by the DEA. Our current president has actually encouraged the agency to crack down on these good men and women who are trying to use good medicine to treat their patients intelligently and with compassion.

    Yet they face serious constraints in prescribing opiods at the very smae time that these ancient, highly effective medicines are being advocated in medical schools across the country, so trust that a paradigm shift in acceptance is in the making. Go in to see your doctor, relax, and be candid. So much the better if you are in a major city such as NY, LA, Boston, Houston or Chicago (where I am fortunate enough to live.) If home happens to be a farm in Montana it may be trickier getting satisfactory attention for your analgesic wants and needs but if you hang in there, help is there if you look hard enough.

    Must reading is "A Life Without Pain" (2000) which was published in the Sunday New York Times Magazine and excerpted in the Reader's Digest in December, 2004. It is highly empowering and should be shared with your personal physician because pain and its treatment are still so widely misunderstood. We are in the Dark Ages when it comes to appreciating this dynamic which has been responding well to opiods for over 2,500 years.

    If you are not experiencing suicidal ideations, you will ultimately find a smart practitioner who understands that opiods DO work and should be prescribed more liberally. As awareness grows within the medical community there will hopefully be less distrust: only 5% of all chronic pain patients become addicted to their meds. As my neurologist has kindly explained, there is a significant differnce between dependence and addiction. When I get better, my physicans will help me bail on my opiods responsibly and celebrate by going out and having a few beers again, which you really shouldn't do when you're on this stuff--they really don't mix.

    The better the medical school, the better your chances. My own 'team' comprises one clinical professor of neurology and a palliative care specialist who attended Northwestern Medical School and got his Masters in in Public Health Policy at the University of Chicago, so it was a gimme that I could count on receiving the wisest diagnosis and benefitting from the latest therapies.

    Palliative care centers on keeping people with chronic or end-of-life issues such as pain and nausea, comfortable. I am darned lucky and I know it. The first genuine pharmaceutical marijuana with all of its 400+ cannabinoids intact, Sativex, will be brought to market by the very conservative GW Pharmaceuticals in the form of a topical oral mouth spray which will deliver the marijuana to the bloodstream sublingually for more rapid relief. I asked him if he would prescribe it for me if we were in the UK rather than Evanston, Illinois at that moment--he smiled broadly and said "You bet!!"--and he meant it.

    When one uses cannabis regularly for a chronic medical condition, they learn to accommodate it and relax without getting too "spacy." The novice who experiments with smoking marijuana socially under the scrutiny of peers will often experience panic attacks or bouts of paranoia. These are nothing more than healthy dissociative responses in many of us who try the "wicked weed" for the first (or third, or fifth) time under ostensibly convivial circumstances. For those who are so inclined however, this soon disappears as the patient learns how to maintain control while under the influence--not unlike learning how to hold your liquor, but much easier!

    The setting now is not one of conviviality; rather, we are seeking to alleviate severe pain and physical suffering which disables and often serves to separate many of us from the mainstream. It should negate most of the untoward side-effects and enable you to tolerate your opiod meds much more effectively. The only problem may be some euphoria, but hey--you are entitled!

  16. #16
    ChgoSurfer is offline New Member
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    Demerol is worthless. One of the pain nurse specialists at the Pain Management Center at Swedish Covenant Hospital here in Chicago was discussing various meds with me prior to admission for a cortisone epidural. I told her that I had been administered Demerol in the hospital following knee surgeries and that I disliked the nervous, jittery feeling that it gave me: she said that Demerol (meperidine) was artifically synthesized in the laboratory by German scientists in the closing months of WWII because they had run out of the resources necessary to manufacture morphia, which is natural and very pure; once the mainstay of pain management across a broad spectrum, Demerol scraped the gutter in the latest modern clinical response assessments; they quickly ditched it and vow never to use the stuff again. Nor will I. It pays to ask questions!

    Please, don't be afraid to speak openly and candidly about opiods/narcotics with your doctor--they are good at reading these situations anyway. She should respect the fact that you are informed. If necessary, share the "Life Without Pain" NY Times Sunday Magazine/Reader's Digest article with her: the information within is cutting edge and indisputable. If they are uptight or reluctant to treat you properly, Run, don't walk out of that office and investigate the resources at the nearest big university medical center, where your complaints are sure to find an empathetic, enlighted ear. If you don't know anyo0ne there, it is reasonable to present at the ER; after an examination which will utilize the universal 1-10 scale of pain assessment you will receive the proper referrals and can proceed smartly from there

  17. #17
    giesbrechtmykal is offline New Member
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    the old oxycontin was great for me However the new Oxyneo makes me very sick at half the dose So I am left in pain Pain Specialists want to put me on the Fentanyl patch However what if that makes me sicker and I OD

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