Going from Methadone to Subutex on Wed.

[debcreature]

Hello,
I have a question. I have searched the internet and have discovered different results. On Wed. 6/2/10 I am to switch to Subutex from Methadone. I started taking Methadone wafers for recreational use about 7 mo's ago. I got up to 30 mgs 5-6 days a week and needless to say, became addicted. I stopped for 11 days and on Wed (this week) I had to take 10 mgs. I woke up in a cold sweat on Thursday and increased the dose to 15 mgs and have been on that since. If someone could answer this and know for sure the answer their giving and not be heresay, I would greatly appreciate it. Do I need to be in withdraw on Wed when I switch to Subutex or no? Also, how many hours need to have lapsed since I last took Methadone before the switch. Any help would be appreciated. When I talked to the Dr's offc, they didn't say or I failed to hear it one. I would call the Dr's offc but this is Sunday and this is Memorial Day weekend which means they won't be there on Monday. Please help!!!

Thank You,
deb

[cheekysod]

YES YOU DEFINATELY NEED TO BE IN WITHDRAWL to switch from methadone to subs.

i did not wait long enough, or should i say, i had methadone too close to my sub appt, i went straight into precipitated withdrawl which i can say from experience, is not a good thing.

you need to score yourself at least a 26 on the COWS (clinical opiod withdrawl sheet), before you take the sub.

good luck on the switch, and only have 2mg at a time, if you are on a low dose of methadone, you should only need about 4mg tops,. subs are very strong, and doctors give em out like candy. (i was on 30-40mg for the last week before subs, started on 12mg which was too high really, honest, try for the lowest dose that makes you feel ok, it works.)

all the best
cheeky

[newyorkgal]

I can add one thing to the good advice cheeky gave you. You have only been using methadone for 7 months. I was using methadone for 30 years. The best bit of advice is DO NOT STAY ON SUB FOR TOO LONG. It is way stronger than any short acting opiate and it's a long acting drug, like methadone. You should not start too high, as cheeky said, 4 mgs. max, and you should wean off within weeks. Sub can be very addictive. I will repeat, you must be in moderate to severe withdrawal before taking sub or you will go into full withdrawal and it won't be fun. I waited 72 hours after my last dose of methadone before starting sub and was fine. This is not heresay. It is fact.

[debcreature]

Thank you both so much. I have not dosed today and the last day I used Methadone was yesterday. So I'll definately be going for the full 72 hrs.

[newyorkgal]

Good for you and best of luck!! You will be fine having gone the full 72 hours. It will take away any withdrawals you have within the hour once you get inducted. Please heed our advice, though, about two issues. Regardless of what the doctor might say, do not let him start you on a ridiculous dose, like 12 or 16 mgs. Many doctor's do that and it is so not necessary for most people. Your addictive is of a relatively short duration so you should be fine taking no more than 4 mgs. to start.. More important, do not stay on sub for too long. Get you stuff in order. Look into going to meetings like NA or AA. You should start low and then start the taper within the week. The recommended iwsdom is drop 25% of your dose every 4 or so days but listen to your body. I can tell you from experience, sub is extremely addictive and if you stay on to long (starting too high can create that situation) you will be in the same boat, addicted and dealing with withdrawal.

[debcreature]

I hope 72 hrs will be enough. I'm still feeling fine and I haven't done any Methadone since yesterday morning. When I talked to the nurse at the Dr's offc on friday, he said I would be going on Subutex 'cause they don't transition from Methadone to Suboxone. I wonder why? Oh Lord I dread the next couple of days. Please pray for me. Oh yeah, I have some Hydroxozine here, do you think it would be ok to take it tomorrow if I start feeling too bad? It's non narcotic but is to help w/ anxiety. I think it's an antihistamine.

Thank You,
deb

[cheekysod]

debcreature, good one, yep 72 should be enough,

if you do it right, it will releive you, not make you worse, (which happened to me)

oh and i was switched from methadone to suboxone, dont know why they are telling you that ya cant, thats bs.

they have the same active ingredient, buprenorphine, which is what puts you into precipitated withdrawl, if you still have opiates in your system. (bupe binds tighter than anything, so it will knock off methadone if its on there, and hence the wd's kick in) the naloxone in suboxone, is only there to stop injecting or snorting, it has nothing to do with prec wd, in fact if taken sublingually, it doesnt absorb much at all.

all the best
cheeky

[newyorkgal]

Methadone ahs a very long half life. It stays in your system awhile so that you dont usually feel withdrawals for a couple of days. In fact, after a 30 year addiction, I took my last dose Friday 9 a.m., scared to death.. I slept fine Friday night and I was fine all day Sat. I slept Saturday night, woke up Sunday not feeling too badly. Felt a bit crummy Sunday afternoon. Went to bed Sunday night, woke up 3 a.m. in MAJOR withdrawal. I got my first sub dose 9 a.m. Monday morning and felt fine by 10 a.m. 72 hours is just right.

[caiti]

the best most important advice i can give you is to absolutely wait until you are in full blown withdrawl from the methadone. i dont mean a lil uncomfortable i mean wait until you literally cannot take it any more. i made the horrible mistake of taking it too soon. i switched from 65 mlg of methadone to suboxone (was on 100mlg methadone for almost a year an weened myself to 65 to start the suboxone.) anyway i had taken my last dose of methadone on a thursday night, and didnt take my first dose of suboxone until sunday morning, even though i was feelin bad, i should have waited a lot longer. five minutes after taking it i was in severe withdrawl, dt's, even had seizures an had to be hospitilized............. WAIT to take the suboxone, or you will be so very sorry. remember that methadone has a very long half life, so it will take you longer to go in to withdrawl then if you were on another opiate like oxy's. good luck to you

[debcreature]

It's Tuesday evening and have to be @ the Dr's tomorrow morning for Subutex and am still not in serious w/d. My legs are a little achy and a headache and some diarrhea but nothing serious yet and my last dose of 15 mgs of Methadone was on Sunday morning. What should I do?

Thanks,
deb

[debcreature]

I received my Subutex today. I was afraid when I got there 'cause I wasn't in heavy withdraw. I think my score on the COWS was about a 20 and I was nervous as all get out thinking it would throw me into w/d. But thank the Lord it didn't and I felt fine. Was I just lucky or is this the norm?

Thanks,
deb

[cheekysod]

no its how you are supposed to do it,

if you are in wd before you get your sub, it will make you feel better. like me, if you are not, it will make you a million times worse, trust me.

so congrats, you did it right.,

so you never mentioned what dose you were on,? you were only on a small amount of methadone before your switch, so hopefully you are only on 4mg of sub OR LESS.

if you are on more, i would strongly suggest taperin as soon as you can. dont play with these subs, they are strong, and very addictive.

dont settle, i did, and im still on them.

go for it

cheeky

[debcreature]

I didn't do it all right, I took 16 mgs yesterday. That was 1@ 8 mgs at the Dr and 1 @ 8 mgs last night. Now it's 2 am and I'm up and throwing up. Could this be because I took too many?

Thanks,
deb

[newyorkgal]

It's absolutely because you're dose is too high. The doc shouldnt have given you 8 and you never should have added the 8. Doctor's are ignorant about this drug. You took way to much. If I were you, I would down myself almost immediately. Break the 8's in half and take 4 and 4 instead of 8 and 8. You will feel better. Then you can go down further. 16 is a HIGH dose.

[debcreature]

Is the Subutex and Suboxone the same as far as dosing? When he started me at 8mgs yesterday, I thought maybe the Subutex is different and since I was coming off Methadone, maybe that's why he had me started on a high dose.

Thanks,
deb

[Robert_325]

Is the Subutex and Suboxone the same as far as dosing? When he started me at 8mgs yesterday, I thought maybe the Subutex is different and since I was coming off Methadone, maybe that's why he had me started on a high dose.

Thanks,
deb

Deb ... I can tell you what to do but you won't like my answer. You should stop everything totally. Let me re-induct you properly at the correct dose. I know how to do this properly if you want my help. Check out the following link and let me know if you want to start over. Pay close attention to the INDUCTION section, read the link there for the COWS worksheet as well. Let me know if you want my help. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[debcreature]

YESSSS absolutely would love your help, I was hoping you would respond. This morning when I took the Subutex, I only took 4 mgs. Is this the correct amount? Again, I thank you sooooo much for responding.


Extremely Grateful,
deb

[Robert_325]

YESSSS absolutely would love your help, I was hoping you would respond. This morning when I took the Subutex, I only took 4 mgs. Is this the correct amount? Again, I thank you sooooo much for responding.


Extremely Grateful,
deb

Deb ..... if we are going to do this right, and especially considering this is the first day only, you should not take ANYTHING for like 72 hours or so again. That is the negative, you need to start over. But I'll have you done with this in a short time and you'll be doing it the right way.

Don't take ANYTHING until you reach an accumulative score of 26 on the COWS worksheet from the link I gave you. The COWS worksheet link is in the INDUCTION section of the link. It won't be fun but will be worth it.

I expect to have you totally inducted and feeling better than you've felt since high school on less than 8mg .... likely 4mg -6mg MAX. I have successfully inducted people on as low as 1.2mg, though that is the exception. But someone handing you 8mg to take at once is pure stupidity, especially from a dr who should know better. Obviously you got a dr who is not a master using subs.

Just be naive enough to go along with me and we'll have you on and off the subs and you'll be totally clean. I don't do this that often anymore as I'm doing other things with my life. But I hate to see someone getting jacked around and treated improperly. I will help you all the way through until you're off the subs too if you will just go along with what I ask you to do.

Hang tough over the next few days. It won't be fun but remember that you're going to be totally clean in a short time and you'll never have to use again. God bless.

[debcreature]

Oh my goodness.....Bless you Robert, that's all I can think of to say. Ok, I won't do anymore and on Sunday I should be able to start anew. I am so grateful to have someone help me who know what they're talking about especially when you have other things going on and really don't have the time. I promise you that I'll do it exactly how you tell me....

Extremely Grateful,
deb

[Robert_325]

Oh my goodness.....Bless you Robert, that's all I can think of to say. Ok, I won't do anymore and on Sunday I should be able to start anew. I am so grateful to have someone help me who know what they're talking about especially when you have other things going on and really don't have the time. I promise you that I'll do it exactly how you tell me....

Extremely Grateful,
deb

Deb .... I will check on you Sunday after church but don't start until we talk. We'll see that you do this right this time. God bless.

[cheekysod]

oh man, thats exactly why me and nyg said not to take more than 4mg, coz we knew what dose of methadone you were on, and weve both done it before, switching to suboxone after methadone that is.

deb, yeh, 4mg shouldve been enough for you girl, yep, doctors dont really give a rats ars bout how much of this they hand out, coz then you will keep goin back for more.

hopefully you will get settled on a way lower dose,

dont forget i started on 12mg, got precipitated withdrawls, and next day still listen to my doctor and took 10mg more. i got thru it, but we get hooked up on the numbers and think were gonna need more, when we really dont. subs -- less = more.

good luck,
cheeky

[cheekysod]

Is the Subutex and Suboxone the same as far as dosing? When he started me at 8mgs yesterday, I thought maybe the Subutex is different and since I was coming off Methadone, maybe that's why he had me started on a high dose.

Thanks,
deb

hey deb, they are exactly the same in terms of dosing, and coz you were on quite a low dose of methadone, the doctor should have only started you with 2MG AT A TIME. then wait for an hour, see how you feel, then take 2mg more.

not 8mg at once. oh i feel like sayin we tried to warn you, but its hard when the doctors act like they know everything about subs. when its clear they dont. i was in same boat really, didnt know buggar all, followed my doctors instructions, and bam, not a happy camper.

hope it goes better on the lower doses.

[debcreature]

Yea, I knew Wed. when I went to the Dr and they had me start on 8 mgs and then asked if I thought I needed another, "this is one of those Dr's who talks smarter than he is". I did fine yesterday on the 4 mgs but if Robert is gonna help me and help me to get off this mess, I feel I couldn't ask for more. Ok Robert, I will get in touch w/ you on Sunday or you can email me when you get back. My email is deb_lockhart@charter.net

Thank you so much to all of you for your help and support....You're a great bunch here!!
deb

[debcreature]

Robert,
I have a problem. It's 7:44 am and I just received a call from my dad (who's 73). His brother died in North Carolina over night and I have to drive him there. I don't know if I'll be back by Sunday or not. Would you be willing to start this on Wed. of next week? I'm thinking they should have is funeral and burial on Monday or Tues and I'll be back on Wed. I hate so much to ask you this since we've already set up a day to start. But since this has happened and my dad's 73, I'm afraid for him to drive from here (Tennessee) to North Carolina. I'm gonna give you my cell phone if you need to call me. If not, I'll call you on Wed. when I get back.

Thanks,
deb
(865)661-7410

[Robert_325]

Deb .... you'll be in a mess by Weds not taking anything. If you did well on 4mg yesterday stay at that level until you get back. Take 2mg twice a day about 8-10 hours apart and let me know how you're doing when you return. Sorry for your family loss. God bless. : )

[debcreature]

Hi Robert,
I just posted this and didn't see it so I'll repost it. I'm still in NC but today I took 2 mg of Subutex and 2 mgs this evening and am doing ok. I've also been taking 5 mgs of Valium as needed. Is this ok? I'll be back home soon (I hope) so I can start the process of getting off all this mess.

Thanks,
deb

[cheekysod]

hey deb, that sounds like more the amount you should have started on., how ya feeling. how many days at 4mg.

have you read the sticky on featured drugs, subutex induction, its all there mate, once you are stable, you can reduce by 25% every 4 days, good on ya for only takin the 4mg after that near mishap ay. 16mg, omg i would hate to have that much in me, and i was on a lot more methadone than you when i switched.

sorry to hear about your uncle,

all the best
cheeky

p.s you shouldnt need valium once you are stable.

[debcreature]

Hey there Cheeky,
I've been on 4 mgs for the last 3 days and I feel fine. Yesterday I took 2 mgs in the morning and 2 mgs in the evening and so far so good (cross your fingers, say a prayer or something for me). I'm still in NC and hope to be back later this week but I wanted to say thank you to all who have responded and helped me thru this. I really mean this from the bottom of my heart when I say "I couldn't have done it w/out you".

Thank you for your compassion,
deb

[debcreature]

Hey Cheeky one more thing,
If I reduce by 25%, how much would I need to take? And I would stay on this dose for the next 4 days and then reduce again?

deb

[debcreature]

Never mind Cheeky I got it. I would need to reduce 1 mg every 4 days? Also, how do I reduce these big Subutex (generic) Buprenorpheen accurately?

Thanks,
deb