Going from Methadone to Subutex on Wed.

[debcreature]

Yes I am taking the Subutex correctly again as of yesterday. I went thru about a week of snorting them. I took my 2 mgs yesterday morning and 2 mgs yesterday evening and did ok. I woke up this morning feeling pretty achy. Especially in my legs and back and took my 2 mgs and am still not feeling much better. Please help...Should I take more Subutex or should I take a benzo?

Please help!!!!!
deb

[Robert_325]

Yes I am taking the Subutex correctly again as of yesterday. I went thru about a week of snorting them. I took my 2 mgs yesterday morning and 2 mgs yesterday evening and did ok. I woke up this morning feeling pretty achy. Especially in my legs and back and took my 2 mgs and am still not feeling much better. Please help...Should I take more Subutex or should I take a benzo?

Please help!!!!!
deb::

Deb .... I ask that you listen to this and take what I'm saying with the proper mindset and attitude. I'm trying to help you but you have to let me do that by participating 100% yourself. You've gone UP to 4mg on the subs after previously being down to right at 1mg, I knew you did that and went along with it reluctantly actually. 4mg is not a terribly high dose (and you got to 1mg dropping pretty fast) so I figured we could still move forward. Thought with your background it might still be workable for you to do that but you're blowing it Deb.

You don't need to increase the subutex AGAIN by going up from 4mg when you've been down to 1mg a short time ago and you don't need to take benzos for pain. You're going to have to do this the right way if you expect to get positive results. You are on track for creating a worse problem for yourself than you had before you started the subs. Getting clean is not a "fun experience" and SOME discomfort is to be expected. You can take advil or something similar over the counter for your body aches. No more sub increases are acceptable.

I get very busy, but sometimes (though not often) things slip by me and I was not previously aware that you had been snorting the subs except the one time. Why in the world would you do that while we are working on getting clean? That is drug abuse plain and simple. I have snorted a ton of drugs in the past so I know why you did that. You get a rush from the meds. No one is EVER going to get clean from ANYTHING while they are engaged in that type of addictive behavior. You know that. I call it as I see it. There is no acceptable reason for snorting any drugs especially while you're trying to get clean. I'm not judging you, just stating a fact.

I will continue to work wih you with the stipulation that you give me your word you won't snort anymore drugs PERIOD, I don't care what the drug is. And you need to lighten up on the benzos. Once I drop something that is it, I drop it forever and won't bring it up again so I won't bug you about it again. I've been forgiven for lots of things I've done and I won't bother you about this again. I just need your honest word to know that you aren't doing that anymore.. I don't have the time to work on this, however, if you are going to snort anything.

So can you do this without snorting it or not? I am serious about this. That's why so many drs automatically put everyone on suboxone because the naloxone in suboxone will make you sick if you snort it. Lots of people don't need suboxone but drs are paranoid because they don't want to risk the patients snorting them. That messes it up for patents taking the subutex the right way.

So will you do this without snorting them ANYMORE? And no more increases in doses or benzo increases. You should be almost done by now and you're in a worse place than you were when you began. That's very frustrating for me Deb, it has to be so for you too!. You need to follow the taper plan and follow the suggestions including NO MORE SNORTING of anything. Can you do that? I never quit on anyone unless they quit on themselves. And start lightening up on the benzos, even a little bit at a time. Most drs won't even prescribe subs if you're taking benzos as it can cause respiratory depression in a higher dose. Respiratory depression means it could make you stop breathing, NOT a good thing.

I'm on your side, I just insist we do this right and the way that is safe for you. God bless.

[debcreature]

Yes you have my word that I won't be snorting anything EVER again. I did not take anything more than the 2 mgs this am. I became pretty sick at my stomach so I took a Phenergan. Is that ok? I seriously thank you from the bottom of my heart how grateful I am that God has put you into my life. (Even though it could be the opposite for you right now). I guess " a light bulb has gone off in my head". If a total stranger to me is willing to help me but is considering giving up, I have to do this for my sanity. But I give you my word of no more snorting anything and I will get thru this......I have to for my own sanity at this point. And no one can be more disgusted w/ myself than me. Again, let me know if Phenergan is ok to use.

Thank You for still being there for me,
Debbie

[Robert_325]

Deb .... I'm here for you. Phenergan is fine. That will help with upset stomach and some anxiety. Let's get you focused again on knocking that sub dose down. As I said before it's forgotten, I won't judge or pick at you, let's just work together and get this done right. All things are possible through Christ! That is what I base everything on. God bless.

[debcreature]

I honestly believe I'm speaking to an anel that has been put here on earth to help people like me. So again, you think Thursday is an ok day to reduce on or should I make it sooner. I just don't want to fail again.

Blessed,
Debbie

[Robert_325]

Deb ..... Thursday is fine. Then try to do four days at 3mg and drop again to 2.25mg. You shouldn't have any trouble dropping at these doses. God bless.

[cheekysod]

i knew you were.

good luck,

oh, and your welcome

[cheekysod]

when i first came to this site i thought it was cool, that lots of people were helpin each other.
its become more and more obvious that you only want to respond to one person deb, and im gonna leave you to it. there are plenty of people who wanted to help you too, but you are only interested in the angel.
no skin off my nose, i could just relate coz ive been on methadone before, and know where you are coming from.

hope this sub thing works out for you,

and all the best for the future
cheeky

[debcreature]

Hey,
I'm open for any suggestions that I can get. "The Angel" was the first one to step up w/a day by day plan. If I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry I didn't mean to. It's just Robert was referred to me and he has stuck w/ me thru this whole thing and has been someone that I can depend on .

thanks,
deb

[cheekysod]

its ok, yeh robert was there for you, but its me who asked you were you still snorting the meds, if i hadnt asked would you have even said something.?

dont think so,.

good luck, you do what you gotta do to sort this out.

i will bow out gracefully.

all the best
cheeky

[debcreature]

That sounds like the best thing you can do. I don't deal w/ drama or people who cause drama. I'm not here to impress or answer to anyone, I'm here for help. And please do ("Bow out gracefully ) like someone w/ some manners....

See ya!!
deb

[debcreature]

Ok guys, so far so good. I've dropped down to 3 mgs down. Not too much trouble, a little diarrhea but that's it. On Monday, if everything is ok, I'm gonna drop to 2.25. What do you think Robert?


thanks,
deb

[Robert_325]

Ok guys, so far so good. I've dropped down to 3 mgs down. Not too much trouble, a little diarrhea but that's it. On Monday, if everything is ok, I'm gonna drop to 2.25. What do you think Robert?


thanks,
deb

deb ..... I think if you drop on Monday that should be fine. Gives you plenty of time to be stable by that point. I think it sounds great.

You're on your way down steadily. That's the most important thing. God bless.

[debcreature]

Ok, I'm down to 2.25 as of today. When I was getting my med's together this morning, I thought it was to be 1.25 and had it taken for this morning and divided it up for this evening. Good thing I read this or I might have had a bad day. Movin' right along!!

Thanks,
Robert

[Robert_325]

deb ...... Yes taking a difference of 1mg at this point in your taper would have been a very noticeable mistake. LOL Need to watch it closely. Subs aren't like other opiates. A fraction of a mg can make a big difference.

I wish you the best of luck at 2.25mg. I don't see you having any problems. Just do what I ask you to do and don't stray off the path at all for anything or anyone. You're going to be like a new person soon. God bless.

[debcreature]

Robert,
I felt a little high at the 2.25 so last night and today I took 1.50 and feel fine. Do you think it's ok if I continue on this for 4 days to see how I do and then reduce again/

Bless You,
Deb

[Robert_325]

deb .... yes but understand that dropping your dose is supposed to be a little uncomfortable or you likely aren't making progress. You should be pushing it untll you feel like you've going about as far as you can make it. Hang in there, You can do this. God bless.

[debcreature]

Ok I'm doing good then 'cause yesterday I just felt high at 2.25 so that's why last night and today I lowered it to 1.50. I'm not in alot if discomfort just a little. Like I seem more grouchy, impatient, my lower back hurts. But it's not unbearable. Pray for my 'cause the Lord knows I'm really trying. Oh yeah, I wanted to ask you since you said before to take no more valium, I was wondering if a Klonopin 1 or 2 times a day as I need it would be ok now that I'm getting closer to being uncomfortable. What do you thinK?

thanks,
deb

[Robert_325]

deb ..... not much difference in valium or klonopin. If you have to take ONE at bedtime but that is all. Don't start taking benzos on a daily basis. Would be a big mistake with subs. Can cause bad adverse reaction. God bless.

[debcreature]

Being on 1.50 I still feel fine. I still feel a little high. You think I should go down some more. I'm having no negative symptoms. I'm feeling fine.

Thanks,
Debbie

[debcreature]

When you say Klononpin and subutex can had serious adverse effects, what do you mean?

thanks,
deb

[Robert_325]

When you say Klononpin and subutex can had serious adverse effects, what do you mean?

thanks,
deb

It can cause respiratory depression in bad reactions causing one to stop breathing. It's a pretty dangerous mix for most people.. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Being on 1.50 I still feel fine. I still feel a little high. You think I should go down some more. I'm having no negative symptoms. I'm feeling fine.

Thanks,
Debbie

If I've been following this right you just dropped your dose. Correct me if I'm wrong as I talk with so many people. But you can go a few days before the half life of subs hits you. That is why I say to wait four days before changing doses. God bless.

[debcreature]

Ok, I'll stay at 1.50 for a few days longer then.

thanks,
deb

[debcreature]

Also, you don't think I can get addicted to klonopin by taking 1-2 day do you?

Lord knows, I don't wanna become addicted to something else.

deb

[debcreature]

Also,
I'm dropping to 1 mg today. Yeaaaa....We'll see how it goes. I'm sure it will go ok. I haven't reallly had too much trouble so far. Wish me luck


thanks,
deb

[Robert_325]

deb ...... I wouldn't take the klonopin daily. That should ONLY be if you're having problems. It's only been two days at 1.5mg I think but if you feel that you're ready go for it. We can always adjust the dose. Just don't replace the subs with klonopin. BIG mistake doing that. God bless.

[debcreature]

The 1 mg daily has been going ok, there's been some diarrhea but really nothing more than that. I found my phenergan last night so will be taking it now instead of the klonopin. When should I reduce more? Should I wait till I stabilize at this 1mg a day?


thanks,
deb

[Robert_325]

The 1 mg daily has been going ok, there's been some diarrhea but really nothing more than that. I found my phenergan last night so will be taking it now instead of the klonopin. When should I reduce more? Should I wait till I stabilize at this 1mg a day?


thanks,
deb

The diarrhea is from dropping the dose a little quickly. We should take it a little more slowly at this point. Get some imodium AD for the diarrhea and take it as needed. Then let's keep the dose at 1mg for three more days at least since you just dropped it yesterday. Remember ..... 25% reduction every four days or it will end up coming back to bite you. The imodium will help. Stay in touch. God bless.