[JahRed24]

THERE ITS GONE, OPIATes are good only on occasion

[dizzy23]

Sounds to me like you can't handle life without a little help!!

Debbie

[mpvt]

You must be on drugs to have an idiot opinion like that,grow up,you don't know the first thing about addiction.....Dave

[Miles]

JahRed:

I don't disagree with you at all. Your behavior reinforces a point I have made throughout this site - addiction is a choice, not a disease or the result of some mythic chemical imbalance.

Scientifically, the contention that addiction is a disease is empirically unsupported. Addiction is a behavior and thus clearly intended by the individual person. What is obvious to common sense has been corroborated by pertinent research for years.

Blaming others, to include external agents such as opiates, for our "addictions" is popular today. The message from the treatment industry is that drug users need professional help to quit. What they seldom say is that people are quitting bad habits all the time without professional help. In fact, some studies suggest most addicts who recover do so without professional help.

Addiction, obesity, starvation (anorexia nervosa) are political problems, not psychiatric/medical: each condenses and expresses a contest between the individual and some other person or persons in his environment over the control of the individual's body.

Miles

[zippysgoddess]

Frankly it sounds to me like you need a crutch to deal with life and that isn't healthy. Neither is using drugs that are not prescribed for you, it isn't safe nor healthy and will just make everyone here think you are stupid.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

[Rscprincess1]

To Say The Least Zippysgodess. Geez What Is This World Coming To.

I'm Not A Pharmacist Or A Medical Doctor. This Message Is Not Medical Advice Or Is It An Offer To Provide Medical Advice. All Drug I.Ds Should Be Validated By A Licensed MD Or Pharmacist. But I Do Enjoy Helping If I Can.

[cluelessNJ]

[quote]Originally posted by JahRed24

To all of you poor/ignorant people that got yourselfs addicted to opiates this message will upset you and u will disagree with me on this.

I endulge in opiates usually every weekend. It all started back in my freshman year of high school when my friend got ahold of some of his mom's Lortab 10's (10mg hydrocodone/tylenol) I remember feelin that warm fuzzy, floaty feelin u get and knew this was the nicest, easiest and most acceptable drug in the entire world. I immediatley found out everything there was to know about opiates and realized they were addictive and could lead to problems if you did them for more then 3 days in a row. So me have strong will power decided to indulge in my opiates once every other month or so. I have stuck to this ritual and will continue using opiates once every other month or so. I have never felt any addiction qualities and have been doing using opiates recreationally sense i was about 15 and i am now 20. To all you na-sayers out there thinkin im addicted and dont realize it, well to u i say that go months without opiates and feel just fine. Opiates actually made my outlook on life better. Everytime i feel stressed, depressed, or angry i think to myself how you feel when u have a good opiate buzz going and immediatley realize life is too short to be stressed out and **** like that. OPIATES WILL OPEN UR EYES TO GREAT THINGS ONLY IF U ARE OF SUPER-INTELLECT LIKE ME! i will say %99 of the human population cannot handle opiates without gettin addicted or what not. But it is once u learn how to use them for a beneficial tool of an outlook on life when you can truley appreciate the power they behold. Opiates allow us to feel pure euphoria at its deepest roots. Just be weary of your state of mind under then influence, if your not careful the opiate dream can easily turn to an opiate nightmere.
[/quote

Let me just start by saying you are 20. People have been dealing with this before you were even thought of. I started the same way. Actually I would just take 1 or 2 perks on the weekend. Yes, in high school that was cool. The proble is when other drugs come your way. Are you willing to try those too? I think you need to re think your grand plan you have!

[BSGjunkie]

quote:Originally posted by JahRed24
Everytime i feel stressed, depressed, or angry i think to myself how you feel when u have a good opiate buzz going and immediatley realize life is too short to be stressed out and **** like that. OPIATES WILL OPEN UR EYES TO GREAT THINGS ONLY IF U ARE OF SUPER-INTELLECT LIKE ME! i will say %99 of the human population cannot handle opiates without gettin addicted or what not. But it is once u learn how to use them for a beneficial tool of an outlook on life when you can truley appreciate the power they behold.

They obviously make you humble as well.

I'll give you an over under of about 5 years before you're back at this forum either A) asking how to get on subuxone or B) asking about online pharmicies without a Rx.

There aren't many teens out there that are actually addicts. Life is too easy at that point in your life - therefore its easy to just use them as weekend pick me up. Wait until you have a kid, job, wife and you realize life isn't like it was in highschool and you'll go from once a week to twice a week, Then twice a week to three times a week. Before you know if you'll be about 6 or 7 every 2 or 3 hours.

Do you think everyone just starts taking PK's in hopes to get addicted? No, they rationalize their habit until it becomes a full blown addiction - others use it for medical reasons and are stuck in a stick situation.

I'm glad you're part of that advanced 1% of the population - but if being in that 1% comes with your ignorance and ego I'd rather be an ex-addict.....

Junkie

[Miles]

Junkie:

Stop with the labeling of JahRed. Not everyone who indulges in occasional opiate use is destined to be a “junkie” or an "addict," whatever that means.

As much as doctors may want to help patients, they are constricted and constrained by narcotics laws. The most effective analgesic drugs are opiates -- morphine, heroin, dilaudid, codeine and methadone. The trouble is that opiates are the most strictly controlled of our controlled substances.

In order to prescribe opiates, which are classed as Schedule 2 drugs (except heroin, which classed as Schedule 1 and cannot be prescribed for any medical purpose), doctors are subject to monitoring by narcotics officials. The Drug Enforcement Administration watches doctors prescribing opiates like customs agents watch dark-complected travelers at Kennedy Airport.

Fearing negative sanctions from drug officials, such as jail or revocation of their licenses, doctors prescribe powerful analgesics less and less. The result? The undertreatment of pain is absolutely medieval.

Pinklon Thomas won the World Boxing Council heavyweight title – six years after ending his heroin use. Pinklon had enjoyed heroin for seven years (from the age of thirteen to twenty) before he decided to box. He achieved a strapping 215 pounds to fight with. By the time of his title he had notched up 25 wins, no defeats, one draw and 21 knockouts! Anecdotal evidence though this may seem, it certainly knocks out the theory about opiate users being on a fast and certain road to death.

Miles

[BSGjunkie]

Miles,

I don't see any labeling in my post.

What I do see, in Jahred's post, is a 20 year old rationalizing his drug use. I then see him, in another thread, trying to locate Rx drugs without an Rx. The only thing I'd be willing to label him as is a 'user'.

Someone as well educated as yourself, should understand that most people do need protection, but mostly from them selves. That is why there have been limitations placed on the use of such drugs. Unfortunately, as you've stated, it has limited the doctors and forced many to under administer those drugs which are greatly needed by many.

Again, someone as well educated as yourself should know better then to help a 20 year old rationalize his drug use. Sure if you knew him well enough to know his intentions, his deep down desires, and self control - you may be able to advocate a recreational indulgence in opiates - but as a 20 year old, he doesn't even know himself yet. His self proclaimed, self control, may turn out to lead him down a path of self destruction.

Unfortunately most people can't control themselves. The majority of people do need to understand the truths. The number one truth being: pain killers are addicting - whether addiction is a choice a or chemical imbalance, it can happen to anyone.

Junkie

[Miles]

Junkie:

With all due respect, age is merely a state of mind. I can recall 18, 19, and 20-year olds during the Viet Nam conflict who used heroin, returned to the states and cleaned themselves up with no so-called lingering addictive behaviors.

“The number one truth being: pain killers are addicting - whether addiction is a choice a or chemical imbalance, it can happen to anyone.” When it comes to making public policy, there really is no case for prohibiting recreational drug use. Avoiding addiction is the moral responsibility of the individual, not the society. As I have stated, it is quite possible for a responsible person to use recreational drugs in such a way that he does not become addicted. Moreover, even if it were not possible for anyone to avoid addiction while using intoxicating drugs, the decision to use drugs or not is one that is a part of an individual's right to the free pursuit of happiness. Society has no business or interest in such a personal decision as this.

We do have obligations to ourselves, and if we are prone to addiction, we have a moral obligation to avoid recreational drug use. But we also have a moral obligation to leave our fellow members of society to their own explorative paths -- to their own pursuit of happiness. Intoxicating drugs are, arguably, one tool to pursuing happiness, and it is only in drug addiction -- not drug use -- that we fail ourselves morally. And in no case does drug use in itself cause harm to society; it is only the behavior of some drug users that is morally objectionable. It is those objectionable behaviors which should be morally and legally prohibited, not their ostensible precursor, drug use. Most importantly, I contend that there is nothing morally wrong with being temporarily (or even permanently) clumsy and befuddled, in itself. The right to be clumsy and befuddled is the very birthright of every American, in fact.

I will never support the notion that “most people do need protection, but mostly from themselves.” That is nannyism at best and statism at worst. Please accept that I as an individual citizen have the right to exercise sole dominion over my own life, as long as it does not interfere with the equal rights of others. The founding fathers sacrificed their property and their lives to escape the tyranny of one overreaching state government. They wanted to be left to their own industry and their own pursuit of happiness. They fought a war to win that liberty. And since then we have voluntarily given up many of those hard-fought liberties to the state in the name of protection. I want my liberties back!

Ideas we put into our head are and always have been more dangerous than substances we put into our bodies. The framers of the Constitution were amazingly bold to protect the former unalienable right with the First Amendment. What a shame they could not conceive of government stooping so low as to restrict our unalienable right to "self-medicate." I guess they made the mistake of assuming that even crusty John Adams, who enforced his Alien and Sedition Act, would have remained impressed at the words in the Declaration of Independence: Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

Miles

[BSGjunkie]

Miles,

I would have to agree, age is relative. Unfortunately, upon reading RahRed's post, I didn't feel his views reflected those of a 20 something that would be able to comprehend the true power of addiction or life.

The concept of people being saved from themselves is one that has been well debated in history. I can see the views expressed from both sides, and agree with many points you make. Things like auto locking doors, speed limiters, and anti-lock brakes can all be examples of protecting people from themselves. Personally, I'm willing to deal with the hassles involved with most of these types of 'protections' in exchange for the extra confidence it gives me on the road - but not the confidence in myself, my confidence in others.

There is a fine line between protecting one from them self for safety precautions and limiting someones rights. That is one thing that will never have to be debated.

Junkie

[Miles]

Junkie:

I understand your position and it is indeed nigh impossible to gague one's level of emotional maturity from what one posts on a website. However, as Thomas Szasz opines, "I favor free trade in drugs for the same reason the Founding Fathers favored free trade in ideas: in a free society it is none of the government's business what ideas a man puts into his mind; likewise, it should be none of its business what drugs he puts into his body."

Regards,
Miles

[cluelessNJ]

I wanted you to be reminded what his original post said! I think that alone is enough said! Basically he is saying when he needs to excape his reality he uses!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote]Originally posted by JahRed24

To all of you poor/ignorant people that got yourselfs addicted to opiates this message will upset you and u will disagree with me on this.

I endulge in opiates usually every weekend. It all started back in my freshman year of high school when my friend got ahold of some of his mom's Lortab 10's (10mg hydrocodone/tylenol) I remember feelin that warm fuzzy, floaty feelin u get and knew this was the nicest, easiest and most acceptable drug in the entire world. I immediatley found out everything there was to know about opiates and realized they were addictive and could lead to problems if you did them for more then 3 days in a row. So me have strong will power decided to indulge in my opiates once every other month or so. I have stuck to this ritual and will continue using opiates once every other month or so. I have never felt any addiction qualities and have been doing using opiates recreationally sense i was about 15 and i am now 20. To all you na-sayers out there thinkin im addicted and dont realize it, well to u i say that go months without opiates and feel just fine. Opiates actually made my outlook on life better. Everytime i feel stressed, depressed, or angry i think to myself how you feel when u have a good opiate buzz going and immediatley realize life is too short to be stressed out and **** like that. OPIATES WILL OPEN UR EYES TO GREAT THINGS ONLY IF U ARE OF SUPER-INTELLECT LIKE ME! i will say %99 of the human population cannot handle opiates without gettin addicted or what not. But it is once u learn how to use them for a beneficial tool of an outlook on life when you can truley appreciate the power they behold. Opiates allow us to feel pure euphoria at its deepest roots. Just be weary of your state of mind under then influence, if your not careful the opiate dream can easily turn to an opiate nightmere.
[/quote

Let me just start by saying you are 20. People have been dealing with this before you were even thought of. I started the same way. Actually I would just take 1 or 2 perks on the weekend. Yes, in high school that was cool. The proble is when other drugs come your way. Are you willing to try those too? I think you need to re think your grand plan you have!


Not so clueless,

CLEAN DATE 1/23/06

[Miles]

cluelessNJ:

Who doesn’t want to feel better? Is that an immoral act?

Miles

[Miles]

JahRed:

The same question was asked during Prohibition. Alcohol is legal, but most responsible people are not walking around drunk all day.

Before 1914 with passage of the Harrison Narcotic Act, opiates were legal.

Miles

[cluelessNJ]

I admire that you can use when you feel like it! It is still illegal! Thats basically saying I can use ILLEGALLY because I think I am smart enough not to become addicted! Well what happens when you have a stressful week or a few weeks? Does that mean you should use the opiates to escape! Get a grip on reality! Find another way to make yourself happy! Excerise, walk your dog, go shopping! You don't have to use drugs as an escape from reality! Its your life and you should be able to control it without a substance! Take out of this what you will but you are in a forum with a bunch of people who once were thinking JUST LIKE YOU! One more question..... What happens when you can't find opiates? Do you try something else? Oh wait I forgot you were looking for online pharmacies that you didn't need a script for! NOW WHO HERE IS REALLY THE SMART ONE?

Not so clueless,

CLEAN DATE 1/23/06

[dizzy23]

I couldn't have said it better.

quote:What I do see, in Jahred's post, is a 20 year old rationalizing his drug use. I then see him, in another thread, trying to locate Rx drugs without an Rx. The only thing I'd be willing to label him as is a 'user'.

Oh Jahred what it must be like to be naive,young and clueless!And obliviously needing a little help to get though life.Glad you are so proud of yourself.



Debbie

Try to be correct!But not always successful!

[Miles]

Alas, the morality police are among us telling us how to run our lives. One might be prone to heed their advice if one believed they could run their own lives as well as they can tell others how to run theirs.

Miles

[dizzy23]

quote:Originally posted by Miles

Alas, the morality police are among us telling us how to run our lives. One might be prone to heed their advice if one believed they could run their own lives as well as they can tell others how to run theirs.

Miles

I do ...thank you!I practice what I preach.Didn't tell anyone how to run their live.They shouldn't condone others when they are doing the same thing,even if they won't admit it.

Debbie

Try to be correct!But not always successful!

[cluelessNJ]

First i'd like to say that I would NEVER tell anyone how to run their life! I do think that you have to be a freakin moron to really think that no one would comment on this! This forum works that way right? You post and people reply with their OPINION! We are all entitled to our opinion are we not? Miles I know you wanted to come back with a great reply but morality police give me a break your MILES off on that one! Moralty, I think it would be immoral for me not to reply to a 20 year old using to escape reality! I knew when I was close to his age I HAD A GREAT PLAN AS WELL. I had it all figured out! Or at least I thought I did! Back to the morality police... It is illegal. You shouldn't try to find online pharmacies that you won't need a script for! You just make yourself sound like a jacka##. Reality check #2 If your on this site looking for pills or another way to get pills you are MORE then a recreational user (abuser).

I would also like to say that i do run my own life and I guarantee that the person posting this is clean and sober!

I now know that back then I didn't have it all figured out, just like I know I don't have it all figured out now (WHO DOES). But I have figured out that there is no recreational use for prescription pills. Especially not to escape life!

Check back in 5 years and let me know if you know what I know now! I was just trying to save you the time and the trouble.

Love always,
THE MORALITY POLICE[:X]

[dizzy23]

quote:Love always,
THE MORALITY POLICE

Debbie

Try to be correct!But not always successful!

[justwhatever]

Aside from age references and name calling and morality police warrants---

I think the real question here is about the law-- is it okay for jahred to live his life how he wants b/c he knows he has self control, or is he bound by obligation to obey the laws that that have been created in America regarding opiates??

Miles--- were these laws created for the "weaker" 90% of the population, or is it all bs propaganda created by our government for taxation purposes??

amanda

[Miles]

cluelessNJ:

First, if you would never tell people how to run their lives, how may I interpret the following posting of yours? "Get a grip on reality! Find another way to make yourself happy! Excerise (sic), walk your dog, go shopping! You don't have to use drugs as an escape from reality! Its your life and you should be able to control it without a substance!"

Re the role of morality:

American politics has become "medicalized." Medicalization is defined as a process or tendency whereby the phenomena, which had belonged to another field such as education, law, religion, and so on, have been redefined as medical phenomena. Thus, [u]medicalization is a process by which the medical profession asserts authority over a sphere of life previously overseen by guardians of morality</u>.

justwhatever:

Re enactment of the Harrison Narcotic Act (It is rather complex, so I apologize in advance for the length of my reply):

[u]Drug laws prohibiting free choice are means of social control and coercion by the State</u>. In 1914, trading in and using drugs was a right. In 1915, limited federal drug controls were a constitutionally questionable tax revenue measure. By 1921, the federal government had gained not only complete control over so-called dangerous drugs, but also a quasi-papal immunity to legal challenge of its authority. Thus has the rejection of one of our most basic constitutional rights become transformed into reverence for one of our most baneful therapeutic-religious dogmas. Once ignited, the fire of "progressive" drug protectionism spread and soon enveloped the whole country, transforming the Harrison Act into [u]the legislative embodiment of the moral principle that taking narcotics for other than medicinal purposes was harmful and should be prevented</u>. That threw the monkey wrench medicinal purpose into the machinery of the trade in drugs; this undefined and indefinable concept has haunted us ever since. In 1920, drug prohibitionists won another major victory: America was, at last, alcohol-free -- if not de facto, then at least de jure. Since 1924, when Congress made it illegal to manufacture, possess, or sell heroin, America has been free from heroin as well -- if not in practice, then at least in theory.

It is impossible to overemphasize that, although initially the drug laws were intended to protect people from being "abused" by drugs others wanted to sell them, this aim was soon replaced by that of protecting them from "abusing" drugs they wanted to buy. The government thus succeeded in depriving us not only of our basic right to ingest whatever we choose, but also of our right to grow, manufacture, sell, and buy agricultural products used by man since antiquity.

Bottom line: Medicalizing troublesome behaviors and social problems is tempting to voters and politicians alike: it panders to the people by promising to satisfy their needs for dependence on medical authority and offers easy self-aggrandizement to politicians as the dispensers of more and better "health care." Thus, the people gain a convenient scapegoat, enabling them to avoid personal responsibility for their behavior. The government gains a rationale for endless and politically expedient "wars" against social problems defined as public health emergencies. The health care system gains prestige, funding, and bureaucratic power that only an alliance with the political system can provide.

Regards,
Miles

[BSGjunkie]

Everyone -

This has brought up a interesting question. I don't mean to call anyone out, or turn it into a I told you so - I'm simply interested in the others point of view.

If ALL drugs were legal - If they could be purchased at your local store - If you only had to obey the laws associated with alcohol while using any other drug - How would the United States be different?

So, if drugs were never made illegal, yet we placed a small warning on them, would we better or worse off? Why?

Junkie

[Miles]

Junkie:

Excellent question! Let's sit back and see what transpires.

Miles

[cluelessNJ]

Miles,
If thats telling someone how to run their life...I should get a prize. I think me saying reality check is just saying....KEEP IT REAL..understand I was giving examples of ways to relive stress without using opiates. Never did I say "these work for everyone, do them now". Plus, what about people who don't have dogs, are they to borrow one.LOL. Quite frankly I was just saying you can find other ways to escape (and still feel good). Like sex, who doesn't get positive energy from sex (well, if you enjoy sex). I could give you plenty of examples that doesn't mean I am in anyway telling you you must do them.

To answer the question about drugs never being legal....... I think we would all be blaming the government saying where is all our tax money going????Why didn't any one warn us??????? As americans people blame someone else. Its never your (my) fault!

Not so clueless,

CLEAN DATE 1/23/06

[justwhatever]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

Miles-- you have a very intriguing argument. I had never looked at the subject that way....

I was wrapping my brain around it on my way home from work.
I still sympathize with drug "abusers" to an extent, and I have a lot of empathy for the ones that choose to quit drugs, because I know its a hard road to take. Still, I have always believed that we as a society abosolutely must hold people accountable for their actions. I blame myself for letting drugs get the best of me at one point in my life, just like I credit myself for having a great job. I don't believe addiction is a "disease." I believe people liken it to one because of the physical and emotional effects it can have, especially when you are buried deep in physical withdrawls.


No one here can deny that long term steady use of opiates is harmful right? At least that's what everything I've read and experienced tells me. However, drinking and smoking cigarettes are legal, and they are just as bad, if not worse. The laws that we have, as well as a lot of "war on drugs" advertising, has made our society look at people that do drugs as sub-human scum bags. Therefore, hard drugs have become uncontrolled, unpure, and dangerous to use, posses or buy. If a drug like heroin was legal, but regulated like alcohol, and you could safely buy buy it and use it, would we have such an epidemic of aids and hepititis among heroin users? Would less kids be using it because it wasn't glorified on movies or TV? Would we have less junkies stealing TVs and turning tricks to obtain it?I think the answer is probably yes, but that is all theorizing.

However, to think that heroin will ever be decriminalized in our society is a dream. The point is, it IS illegal to use opiates without a prescription, and it's getting increasingly harder to even get that. If you want to use these drugs recreationally, because you have no moral problems with it, and you feel you have enough self control, you can, but you have to face the consequences. Buying these drugs on the street is dangerous, and when you do it, you are risking a lot, including your freedom and your life. I guess the question is whether or not the risk is worth taking for the individual.

everyone needs a crutch- I am just trying to find one that isn't going to kill me

amanda

this forum is about helping and healing-- feel free to correct my mistakes

[dizzy23]

quote:Originally posted by BSGjunkie

Everyone -

This has brought up a interesting question. I don't mean to call anyone out, or turn it into a I told you so - I'm simply interested in the others point of view.

If ALL drugs were legal - If they could be purchased at your local store - If you only had to obey the laws associated with alcohol while using any other drug - How would the United States be different?

So, if drugs were never made illegal, yet we placed a small warning on them, would we better or worse off? Why?

Junkie

We would be worse off!!!If you could buy them at the store their would be a lot more drug addicts.As long as they had the $$$ they can buy all they want[or steal them]!!

Debbie

Try to be correct!But not always successful!

[Miles]

Re: Drug Legalization

The so-called War on Drugs is one of the worst atrocities that the American government has perpetrated on its people. The prohibition of certain drugs, including common prescription drugs, is nothing more than the government telling the people that father knows best. It is this paternalistic attitude that every American should find oppressive.

Three arguments:

1. The War on Drugs is a failure and can never succeed.
2. Drug legalization is not a viable answer. It would only become another attempt by the government to control drugs and would be no more of a free market system than the current system of drug prohibition. Most proponents of legalization are simply arguing for “Legalization as Taxation.”
3. The solution is to end all drug regulation by the government, in effect, creating a free market for drugs – both illicit and prescription drugs.

The free market may be defined as the right of every competent adult to trade in goods and services. The government’s only role in a free market is to protect people from force and fraud and, to the maximum extent possible, abstain from participating in the production and distribution of goods and services.

According to the U.S. Constitution, every American citizen shall have the inalienable right to life, liberty, and property, the first two elements resting squarely on the last. Because both our bodies and drugs are types of property, producing, trading in, and using drugs are property rights, and drug prohibitions constitute a deprivation of basic constitutional rights. Just like the prohibition of alcohol required a constitutional amendment, so does the prohibition of drugs.

Merely legalizing drugs would yield a system much like that of prescription medication. We will never be able to control all substances – as I stated earlier, this mentality is much like that of the overprotective parent. The American government does not trust its own people with their own bodies and the decisions that affect their bodies!

The answer to the nation’s drug problems is to lift all prohibitions on all drugs, illicit and prescription. Then and only then would our government be obeying the Constitution as written.

Miles