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Drug test monday. Need info on cleaning system
  1. #1
    RandomHer0 is offline New Member
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    Default Drug test monday. Need info on cleaning system

    Ok the drug test isnt for probation, i am in opiate recovery and am on suboxone. I am going to be taking a 10mg Norco(hydrocodone) tonight because they help me sleep. And probably again tomorrow, and sunday also. So.. Will flushing my system with water help to get this out, and drink some coffee so it doesnt look so clear? If I test posotive I could be kicked out and thats the last thing I want this program has really helped. And I know you must be asking yourself why would I take an opiate to help me sleep when im in an opiate recovery program (which is costing me about 750.00 a month, mostly on prescription prices). Well that is b ecause regular sleep aids do not work on me. I can take up to 6 and not sleep, but still feel the full effects of the sleep aids and its such a horrible feeling. I know from the past when I couldnt get my oxys I would take my moms norcos (she doesnt take them so she gave them to me so I wouldnt be sick) and they always made me mad tired. So thats why. But I dont want to risk being kicked out, but i do remember them saying they expect people to relapse at least once, or have a small slip up. So maybe I will be ok, but I want to dilute it AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE before my test on monday at 1:30pm

  2. #2
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    Question Did you try melatonin?

    Wow, Random. Don't you think getting kicked out of a life-saving program is a big price to pay for a couple three nights of sleep? The whole point of the opiate recovery program is to help you learn how to live WITHOUT depending on opiates.

    Norco is metabolized in the liver, not the kidneys, so drinking water will just flag your urine as "over-dilute" to the authorities. They will call it "inconclusive" or "suspicious" and frequently make you repeat it. Drinking water will not speed up liver metabolism. So drinking water won't help, and just may red flag you.

    Have you tried melatonin? It's sold over the counter everywhere and really works. 0.5 to 1 mg is all you need. I too used opiates for sleep (that's what got me started--I worked a night shift and couldn't face alcohol at 7 AM when I got off work. Downhill there. )

    There are many non-opiate sleep aids at healthfood stores; your doctor might also prescribe some non-opiate ones for a while. Unisom works, tylenol PM, the list goes on.

    People recovering from opiate addiction frequently (I almost typed always) have difficulty sleeping normally, so there are a lot of people in the same boat. If you're thinking of using opiates to help get you through opiate recovery, I think you've got to step back and think about that. Recovery means living free of opiates.

    Opiates work. That's what makes them so seductive. They work, until they don't. I assume that's why you're in a recovery program. Take advantage of what they teach you. I think the first lesson is , "Don't use, no matter what."

    To think, "Oh, I'll use, because relapse is expected." is called gaming the system. It's not attitude of good faith. You have an opportunity that many people would LOVE to have --being in a recovery program--don't throw it away for a snooze.
    OXYmom and ApostateApostle like this.

  3. #3
    RandomHer0 is offline New Member
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    well its not just for a couple days. its for as long as i need them to get back on a good day/night sleep regimen. Likse i said OTC sleep aids dont work on me, ever. Ill look into the melatonin tho. But i dont think itll be suspicious if i flush, cause they know im on xanax and other meds that theyve okayed. so i dont think flushing would be to bad. ill look into the melatonin. when should i take it?? how much is it??

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    Post Melatonin

    It comes 1mg and more. Any more than 1 mg is too much, because it'll suppress your own body's making ability to make its own melatonin. It's cheap. Take it 1/2 to 1 hour before bed. It doesn't force you to sleep, but lets you fall asleep naturally. So don't expect to "feel" anything--it's natural.

    It doesn't make any sense to take an opiate to get over opiate withdrawal sleeplessness. It'll never happen. Ever. In order to get free from opiates, you have to get free from opiates. Think about it. The reason you can't sleep well is opiate-withdrawal. You can't stay on an opiate to fight opiate-withdrawal symptoms and think that you are withdrawing. Withdrawal is something that takes OPIATE-free time to get through. So it's hard. Well, what do you want to do with your life?

    Just because you're allowed to have xanax in your urine, doesn't change the fact that an over-dilute urine is a tip-off to gaming the system. They run multiple tests on the urine. Over-dilution lets them know that you're likely hiding something, Been there, done it. Don't waste your time (and everyone else's time) gaming the system. What's the point?

    If you want to be opiate-free, then you have to be opiate-free. Sorry to be such a scold, but I hate to see a young person heading down a path that won't lead to where you want to go.

    It's not a walk in the park, but missing a few nights sleep won't kill you. That statement isn't true about opiate addiction. And don't say "It won't happen to me; my habit isn't that bad." Every addict EVER has said those words.

    A few sleepless nights--think of them as dinosaur eggs, that you're stomping on to prevent them from hatching into big old T Rexes. It's an easier unpleasantness than hand-to-hand with a T Rex.

    Best of luck. Stay focused and strong. You'll be so proud of yourself if you do. Read around the forum on opiate withdrawal. Look up the Thomas recipe. There's a lot of wisdom here; it's free and all you need is an open mind and willingness to work. Sobriety is something you receive passively, you work actively for it. It's doesn't come magically Don't lie to yourself. You'll only make it harder, for you.
    ApostateApostle likes this.

  5. #5
    RandomHer0 is offline New Member
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    im way passed w/d. im 65 days clean today since my last pill. and its not a few sleepless nights. its been like this the whole 65 days since i started. im up all day/night then up half the day. then sleep 16 hours. i try to stay up all night, then all day, and sleep at night to wake up in the morning. it works.. but one day later im back to the same routine. this suboxone keeps me wired. i cant sleep on it, and when i do finally sleep it can be from 12-18 horus at a time. i cant get my life going again until i can get a regular sleep schedule.
    Last edited by RandomHer0; 08-12-2011 at 02:33 PM.

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    Default Suboxone is a narcotic

    Random, suboxone is a narcotic. You need to talk to Henry or Robert. If you're wired from Subs you are on too much. How much do you take? I'll let Henry know you need his help. Just don't add another narcotic to the subs you are already on.

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    RandomHer0 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shrimpboat 1942 View Post
    Random, suboxone is a narcotic. You need to talk to Henry or Robert. If you're wired from Subs you are on too much. How much do you take? I'll let Henry know you need his help. Just don't add another narcotic to the subs you are already on.
    I take one 8mg strip twice a day. 8mg bubrenorphine/2mg naloxone

  8. #8
    tennlady3 is offline New Member
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    I may be wrong, but if you are taking your moms(or anyone elses script, or buying them off the street) Norco, then you arent 65 days clean. I am NOT meaning this to be mean, or harsh, because I am still working on getting clean from subs. Im just saying that so you could set a plan up for yourself. Is all this worth going to jail for? or getting booted from the suboxone program? Not at ALL. Imagine fully detoxing in jail with NOTHING to help you! Terrifying!

    You need to maybe think through which is more important to you. Its scary being addicted, I know that myself and am weaning off suboxone as we speak, so I dont consider myself Clean at all. Clean to ME is opiate free (or benzo free or any of the others).

    It is a scary thing, and I know you want to do whats best, so maybe talk to your Doc(and suboxone doc) about the fact that you are having to use opiates to sleep, and you can figure out another plan. Would your sub doc approve of you taking Norcos to sleep? Not being smart aleck, just really dont know what relationship you have with him? Talk to them both about this and maybe all together you could come up with a much better solution than opiates to sleep. I wish you the very best. Its a struggle thats for sure. I hope things work out well for you..

  9. #9
    RandomHer0 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tennlady3 View Post
    I may be wrong, but if you are taking your moms(or anyone elses script, or buying them off the street) Norco, then you arent 65 days clean. I am NOT meaning this to be mean, or harsh, because I am still working on getting clean from subs. Im just saying that so you could set a plan up for yourself. Is all this worth going to jail for? or getting booted from the suboxone program? Not at ALL. Imagine fully detoxing in jail with NOTHING to help you! Terrifying!

    You need to maybe think through which is more important to you. Its scary being addicted, I know that myself and am weaning off suboxone as we speak, so I dont consider myself Clean at all. Clean to ME is opiate free (or benzo free or any of the others).

    It is a scary thing, and I know you want to do whats best, so maybe talk to your Doc(and suboxone doc) about the fact that you are having to use opiates to sleep, and you can figure out another plan. Would your sub doc approve of you taking Norcos to sleep? Not being smart aleck, just really dont know what relationship you have with him? Talk to them both about this and maybe all together you could come up with a much better solution than opiates to sleep. I wish you the very best. Its a struggle thats for sure. I hope things work out well for you..
    I was using the norcos before I started this program. I most certainly AM 65 days clean. I have not touched ONE opiate in 65 days. NOT ONE. If you had read properly, you would have understood that i said "when i didnt have my oxys, my mom would give me her norcos". Thats when I was still DOING the pills. I am 65 days clean, you read wrong. I have not bought anything off thr streets, or gotten anything from anybody at ALL.

    And as far as detoxing and jail.... How would I go to jail if im no longer buying pills illegally. And if I fail a test at a drug rehab center, they dont call the cops. They would just kick you out. And im not going to get kicked out, Theyll be flushed by then
    Last edited by RandomHer0; 08-12-2011 at 06:56 PM.

  10. #10
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Hello Random,
    First I want you to understand that I am not arguing with you just stating facts as I don't want to see you get into any trouble.
    1. 65 days clean but you are on suboxone (you stated bupe and naloxone) does not mean you are clean. Subs are a narcotic with 30 to 40 times the strength of morphine all variables being equal.
    2. 8 mgs is NOT a low dose. It is considered high.
    3. You are feeling symptoms because you are on too high a dose of sub.
    4. Regardless of what you think you can not compare Xanax to opiates. Both are completely different class of drugs and chemically different. Once a drug is in your system you can not "flush" it out. All drinking water is going to do is hydrate you and make you go pee more.
    5. Norco half life is about 4 to 6 hours but trace elements can stay in your system for days.
    6. Sub half life is up to 72 hours.
    7. No matter what you take or just stop subs will still be in your system on Monday you can not avoid that. You can not flush it out, you can not exercise it out, you can not eat it out, and it will just have to run its course. The vast majority of subs will be out of your system in a bit over a week to 10 days as that is how it depletes out of your system. You will still have trace elements possibly for a month or longer.
    8. You were given valid and good information by Shrimpboat yet you go against what you were told. Shrimpboat stated you can not flush it out of your system but you countered with you do not think flushing will be too bad or suspicious. Drug testers have seen it all you are no exception.

    Bottom line: Opiates will be in your system Monday regardless of what you think.

    Sleep issues is a very natural occurrence when using subs especially on too high a dose along with too close to bedtime. THEY WILL MESS WITH YOUR SLEEP! Taking a 10mg Norco for wanting to sleep is addictive behavior and if you are worried about the $750.00 a month and being kicked out of the program why try to justify not being able to sleep by taking Norco which is exactly what will get you kicked out? The issue is not the Norco or subs or lack of sleep. The issue is the addiction. We addicts try and justify everything. There is no justification for addictive behavior period. At this point in time there is nothing you can do if you are going to take a drug test on Monday. Norco is not a sleep aide. It is an opioid based pain medication. One of the many side effects is sleepiness in some people. If you take Norco for as you stated as long as you need them to get back on a regular sleep pattern that is an excuse to keep using. Think about this now logically and rationally. You are in a detox program that you are paying about $750.00 a month for. There are lots of people out there that can not afford $750.00 a month in rent! You are worried you are risking being kicked out yet you want to use Norco to help you sleep. You come on here looking for help and are given some good advice and information but you justify to yourself basically what you were told is worthless. Why ask then? You are willing to push the envelope between using subs and opiates AT THE SAME TIME which can cause tremendous complications and hopefully not but land you in ER. Taking subs and opiates at the same time WILL CAUSE problems as subs are designed to block out and keep the regular opiates, trying not to get technical, from reaching and working on the opiate receptors in your brain. You are basically asking folks on this forum for help on how to beat the system and how to get away with cheating a drug test. Not cool! We are trying to get people clean not show them how to avoid detection. Now there is more to this but ask your self does all this sound logical, rational and that of sound mind or does it sound like someone still under the influence? No harm intended I am trying to keep you out of trouble.

    I hope you do the right thing and that is to NOT take the Norco, get some moderate exercise which will help with sleep, taper off the subs in a controlled manner, you can find the sticky post on this site, and lastly be VERY CAREFUL WITH THE BENZOS BECAUSE TAPERING OFF BENZOS WILL MAKE OPIATE WITHDRAWAL SEEM LIKE A WALK IN THE PARK!!! You MUST taper off benzos as there is NO cold turkey off them. To suddenly stop them can prove fatal!!!

    Best of luck and hope you do the right thing.
    Be well!

    Henry
    shrimpboat 1942 likes this.

  11. #11
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomHer0 View Post
    I was using the norcos before I started this program. I most certainly AM 65 days clean. I have not touched ONE opiate in 65 days. NOT ONE. If you had read properly, you would have understood that i said "when i didnt have my oxys, my mom would give me her norcos". Thats when I was still DOING the pills. I am 65 days clean, you read wrong. I have not bought anything off thr streets, or gotten anything from anybody at ALL.

    And as far as detoxing and jail.... How would I go to jail if im no longer buying pills illegally. And if I fail a test at a drug rehab center, they dont call the cops. They would just kick you out. And im not going to get kicked out, Theyll be flushed by then
    Random,
    You need to calm down and stop acting like an addict. We are all addicts that are clean, trying to get clean or seeking help. You came on here looking for help and received it and just because you didn't hear what you wanted to hear you are upset and lashing out. You were told facts and if you believe that drinking water will flush your system out when told otherwise then do what you want to do. No one is forcing you to do anything so get it together. These people have the best intentions and are just trying to help. If you can not accept that and don't hear what you want to hear you should not ask.
    By the way if you are taking subs you are NOT clean. Not even close so I don't know where you got that idea from but that is incorrect. Look up subs and you will see it is a class of opiate. There is no shame in using subs. Most of us has or still are. It is a tool that is used to help some off opiate addiction is all nothing more.
    If you are convinced that your system will be flushed by then believe what you want. It is YOU that is being tested not us.
    Now on the testing of subs most tests do not look for subs. If they do then it WILL be found. I don't know what kind of test they/whomever will administer to you.
    Good luck.

    Henry

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomHer0 View Post
    well its not just for a couple days. its for as long as i need them to get back on a good day/night sleep regimen. Likse i said OTC sleep aids dont work on me, ever. Ill look into the melatonin tho. But i dont think itll be suspicious if i flush, cause they know im on xanax and other meds that theyve okayed. so i dont think flushing would be to bad. ill look into the melatonin. when should i take it?? how much is it??
    what dose of subs are you on. no matter i see its 16mg far too high, another one on a huge dose of sub...... its in your head if you think the opiates are even gonna break thru the sub... you are wasting your time.

    the reason you cant sleep is you are taking 8mg of sub twice a day, and they wire you.... end of story.,...

    you are dicing with the devil bro
    HenryNCBA likes this.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomHer0 View Post
    I was using the norcos before I started this program. I most certainly AM 65 days clean. I have not touched ONE opiate in 65 days. NOT ONE. If you had read properly, you would have understood that i said "when i didnt have my oxys, my mom would give me her norcos". Thats when I was still DOING the pills. I am 65 days clean, you read wrong. I have not bought anything off thr streets, or gotten anything from anybody at ALL.

    And as far as detoxing and jail.... How would I go to jail if im no longer buying pills illegally. And if I fail a test at a drug rehab center, they dont call the cops. They would just kick you out. And im not going to get kicked out, Theyll be flushed by then
    sorry bro, you aint clean taking 16mg of OPIATES PER DAY....

    get in touch with reality, you are still using drugs... and asking how to flush em,,, why even take them in the first place if you are clean.... if you want to get to sleep, try dropping your dose of subs... and dont take the second dose so late... they keep you awake....
    HenryNCBA and shrimpboat 1942 like this.

  14. #14
    RandomHer0 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheekysod View Post
    sorry bro, you aint clean taking 16mg of OPIATES PER DAY....

    get in touch with reality, you are still using drugs... and asking how to flush em,,, why even take them in the first place if you are clean.... if you want to get to sleep, try dropping your dose of subs... and dont take the second dose so late... they keep you awake....
    i was not away suboxone was an opiate. and when i say im clean i mean i havent taken any pain killer opiates. or any other drug, except my prescribed xanax.

  15. #15
    tennlady3 is offline New Member
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    so would taking Norcos, in your opinion, ALSO be a continuation of your 65 days clean time? (which has been pointed out repeatedly, you are not clean and nor am I while on suboxone, though I long for that day. I will be there soon, though)! You arent clean, and you are looking to get even "dirtier" by using Norco. Also, trying to beat a drug test? All of this is addict behavior. I do wish you well, just listen to what people are telling you. Dont get defensive or upset. This may not be what you want to hear, but NEED to hear. I wish you the best...
    HenryNCBA and shrimpboat 1942 like this.

  16. #16
    medicgirly911 is offline New Member
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    Random,

    If you take thoes tonight, tomorrow night and Sun night, there IS NO WAY just by drinking water you will p*** clean on Monday.
    I have been a paramedic for 10 years and have been using and taking drug tests for a long time and to be honost with you drinking alot of water dosent really do anything to help AT ALL.
    All of the opiate is not released by your body at once for use in making waste.
    When you drink alot of water you are only flushing out what has ALREADY been processed by your body. It will continue to excrete the waste product of the opiate for several days depending on how long you take it and how much you take.
    If you take one tonight, tomorrow and on Sunday you probably wont be clean for about week to a week and a half and all the water in the world wont help. That is a myth trust me I know.

    I have been in a methadone clinic for about 3 mths now and I know they don't kick people out for failing drug tests, they might drop your dose a little though, but if it effecting your sleep pattern you need to be dropped anyway. You should feel and function normally on a correct dose not be wired, high or sleep differently. The melatonin is a good idea it helps me alot, also valerian root is good and so is good old fashioned benadryl.

    If you are seiously worried about it though dont even take the hydro its not really worth it. I am trying to kick a 250-300mg a day oxy habit and I wouldnt touch one with a 10ft pole, one leads to another, leads to another... and on and on it goes.

    Just use good judgement and good luck. If you do end up taking them try a head shop for a urine flush. They can usually recommend a good one and that would pretty much be your only hope of getting it out by Monday.

    Good Luck,

  17. #17
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    Default Subs are opiates

    You are not clean on subs. Not yet. They are opiates to help you withdraw slowly from fast-acting opiates, like norcos, and oxys.

    You're in a recovery program--take advantage of it and ask some questions of your counselors.

    You are on your way to being clean. But you are not yet clean.

    Listen to Henry. Xanax is such a highly addictive drug. As it wears off, you get rebound anxiety, causing you to take more and more. It is a real tiger by the tail. The FDA recommends it only for SHORT-term anxiety problems (less than two weeks) because of its lash back, addictive qualities. Some doctors (mine) won't ever prescribe them, since they are anxiety-causing when they wear off.

    You are in a recovery program already. I hope you open your ears and heart to what a wonderful opportunity it is for you to get clean. You're not there yet.

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