[miley85]

depression and anxiety I feel are mental illnesses. I think that its not only in your head, but things that are in your life effect how you are feeling too. I don't think its all just brain chemistry, because even taking an anti-depressant it helps, but you need to also talk to someone.

[wrnx1009]

Depression as a chemical imbalance is so silly. If I were a shrink I would be pretty pissed off. What do shrinks think were
children. Depression is simply a term to keep shrinks in buisness.
Every time they prescribe a **** drug like prozac os zoloft they get a kickback from the pharmaceutical co. Shrinks if they were smart would go back to using amphetamines to treat depression. "The pt may get hooked" if a shrink had any type of feelings for mankind he would wake up and realize that opiates and the amphetamines would cure 99% of depressed people

J shattuck

[the4biddendonut]

if the drugs work, i say use em.

[Meghen]

I'm not proud of this, but I just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading Miles' posts alone; after suffering through that, I figured I deserve to leave one myself...
Miles, do you really believe this regurgitated psuedo-intellectual nonsense you have been spewing, or do you derive some kind of satisfaction from pissing off crazy people? If all mental illnesses are not really in fact illnesses treatable by medication, then what is your expert suggestion? Do you believe that schizophrenics should not be medicated? I know a young schizophrenic male that has tried to commit suicide numerous times after discontinuing his medication, and this most recent time, it remains to be seen if he succeded. If that is your vision for an ideal society, I suppose everyone who is depressed or hears voices should just get the hell over it.
I believe you quoted Einstein saying, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results," or something to that effect. By that logic Miles, you are insane. You have posted the same idiotic arguments time and time again. The only other assumption that can be made is that you're an egotistical ass who enjoys contradicting everyone. Did you notice that this discussion started from someone genuinely asking about the symptoms/ warning signs of depression? You were the first to respond with an entire chapter about the fallacy of diagnosing mental disorders, some of which I suspect were copied and pasted from equally idiotic internet sites. Many people feel that, "Everyone has a right to their own opinion." I disagree. Suppose someone asks your opinion on the taste of rice; how can you respond to that if you have never tasted rice? Granted, you may have seen it, read about it, and had it described to you, but that doesn't change the fact that you've never tasted it. Likewise Miles, you have obviously studied a lot about mental illnesses and psychotropic medications. But you have never EXPERIENCED a mental illness, therefore, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO AN OPINION! Get over yourself dude.

[Miles]

Meghen:

Words have consequences. Heard that before?

To think is to talk to oneself. Thinking is "self-conversation," the subject acknowledging his inner voices as his own; "hearing voices" (auditory hallucinations, one cardinal "symptom" of schizophrenia) are self-conversations that the subject disowns, attributing his inner voices to other "speakers" such as God, the FBI, etc.

Never before in history have so many educated people wasted so much time and money as have diverse professionals squandered on studying this nonexistent illness labeled schizophrenia.

According to a 1992 article in Time Magazine, fully a quarter of the nation's hospital beds are occupied by schizophrenia patients. Articles like these and the facts to which they refer (such as a quarter of hospital beds being occupied by so-called schizophrenics) delude most people into believing there really is a disease called schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is one of the great myths of our time.

In the Epilogue of their book [u]Schizophrenia - Medical Diagnosis or Moral Verdict?</u>, Theodore R. Sarbin, Ph.D., a psychology professor at the University of California at Santa Cruz who spent three years working in mental hospitals, and James C. Mancuso, Ph.D., a psychology professor at the State University of New York at Albany, say: "We have come to the end of our journey. Among other things, we have tried to establish that the schizophrenia model of unwanted conduct lacks credibility. The analysis directs us ineluctably to the conclusion that schizophrenia is a myth" (Pergamon Press, 1980, p. 221). In his book [u]Against Therapy</u>, published in 1988, Jeffrey Masson, Ph.D., a psychoanalyst, says "There is a heightened awareness of the dangers inherent in labeling somebody with a disease category like schizophrenia, and many people are beginning to realize that there is no such entity" (Atheneum, p. 2). Rather than being a bona-fide disease, so-called schizophrenia is a nonspecific category which includes almost everything a human being can do, think, or feel that is greatly disliked by other people or by the so-called schizophrenics themselves. There are few so-called mental illnesses that have not at one time or another been called schizophrenia.

The truth is that the label schizophrenia, like the labels pornography or mental illness, indicates disapproval of that to which the label is applied and nothing more. Like "mental illness" or pornography, "schizophrenia" does not exist in the sense that cancer and heart disease exist but exists only in the sense that good and bad exist. As with all other so-called mental illnesses, a diagnosis of "schizophrenia" is a reflection of the speaker's or "diagnostician's" values or ideas about how a person "should" be, often coupled with the false (or at least unproven) assumption that the disapproved thinking, emotions, or behavior results from a biological abnormality. Considering the many ways it has been used, it is clear "schizophrenia" has no particular meaning other than "I dislike it." Because of this, I lose some of my respect for mental health professionals when I hear them use the word schizophrenia in a way that indicates they think it is a real disease. I do this for the same reason I would lose respect for someone's perceptiveness or intellectual integrity after hearing him or her admire the emperor's new clothes. While the layman definition of schizophrenia, internally inconsistent, may make some sense, using the term "schizophrenia" in a way that indicates the speaker thinks it is a real disease is tantamount to admitting he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Belief in biological causes of so-called mental illness, including schizophrenia, comes not from science but from wishful thinking or from desire to avoid coming to terms with the experiential/environmental causes of people's misbehavior or distress. The repeated failure of efforts to find biological causes of so-called schizophrenia suggests "schizophrenia" belongs only in the category of socially/culturally unacceptable thinking or behavior rather than in the category of biology or "disease" where many people place it.

That said, I can now answer your question, "Do you believe that schizophrenics should not be medicated?" Emphatically, YES!

Miles

[tool8er]

Well it seems that individuals have their own "individual" opinions... as it should be. The person with said inbalance or "suffering from life's complexities" needs to take into consideration the limits and therefore the risks of allopathic medicine. Yes, we are still learning and will never stop doing so until the end of our civilization but health care is a double-edged sword. The "patient" must decide if treatment, or lack of, is worth the risk/detriment. Another variable is all health practitioners do not follow the same exact roadmap when treating because treatment guidelines are usually bifurcating pathways(even though they have gotten more stringent). Yet another variable is what treatment doorway will we choose, allopathic, naturopathic.... et al.? [8)]

T. Blando, BS, RRT, PharmD Candidate

[JahRed24]

i think depression is a load of bull****. the only reason you are having depression is because of "substance abuse" so get off ur stupid anxiety and painkiller meds. Start working out, running, eating right, gettin proper nutrition. And of course a girlfriend. peace out playaz!


Representin from a 19 year old mind. Sometimes i think im smarter then most people, older and younger alike. [8D]

[Meghen]

Miles:
I can't believe you honestly think people with "so-called illness" (depression, schizophrenia, bi-polar cycling, etc.) would be better off unmedicated. According to that belief, those with suicidal tendencies would be better off ending their own lives than taking medication, because that would be succumbing to societies preconcieved notions of what is normal. You said that the diagnosis of schizophrenia "includes almost everything a human being can do, think, or feel that is greatly disliked by other people." Suicide should be disliked and disapproved of by society. It's slightly unpleasant.
So let me see if I understand your thinking process: You maintain that those with mental illnesses should not be medicated. That would drastically increase suicides, homeless individuals, poverty, and violence, i.e. a lot more dead people. Is this your ideal society - survival of the fittest? Will man eventually get stronger as the weak are thinned out of the herd, causing each new generation to have less and less mental defects? Nice. I believe you called someone a Nazi earlier...

[Twizted]

[:0]Oh my God, Miles is still here preaching his beliefs! Wow, Miles you are still not very well liked are you? [xx(]...Oh well, like I care...'Not'. Oh yes, this is me Twizted. Remember me? The one you tried to preach too with all your knowledge. But having no real clue what the hell it is like to have depression? But as I said before, I think your a real nut who has nothing better to do with his life! You should get out! Go do something! And leave space for all of us who want to discuss our problems! Go away Miles! No one wants to hear your **** anymore. (yawns) we are all tired of you! You so obnoxious! But, if you still wish to go on and on trying to impress everyone with your text book knowlege! Feel Free...I always need a good laugh when I awake in the morning! I know we will 'unfortunatly' all here from you soon! Woot~Woot, BYE TWIZTED [:X] Remember Miles, GO OUT! GET A LIFE! GET OFF YOUR PROBABLY FAT ASS! "OR GO TALK TO PEOPLE WHO GIVE A ****"! LAMO...BYE AGAIN.

EFFEXOR XR!!! Help!!! I can't stop sweating. Has anyone else ever had this problem???

[Miles]

Meghen:

Re suicide. The core libertarian principle of self-ownership implies that we have a right to commit suicide – the state has no right to forcibly prevent us from killing ourselves. Who owns your body if you don’t? The state?

The core psychiatric practice of suicide prevention implies that we have no right to commit suicide. The state, through its mental health laws and psychiatric agents, has the “duty” to forcibly prevent us from killing ourselves.

But that is not all. “Suicide prevention” is nothing more than a euphemism for incarceration in a mental hospital. From a civil rights perspective, depriving an individual of liberty because he/she might commit an act in the future is anathema. Doing so because he might commit an act that is not a crime is an outrageous injustice. As you are well aware, mental health laws authorize and obligate the psychiatrist to incarcerate his patient if he deems him to be “mentally ill and dangerous to himself or others.” There is absolutely no evidence that suicide prevention prevents suicide. The rate of suicide among psychiatrists is roughly three times that of the general public.

What is of concern here is the psychiatric premise that the patient has no right to kill himself; the psychiatrist’s professional duty to prevent the patient from killing himself; and the incompatibility between this psychiatric practice and the libertarian principle of self-ownership.

Nulla poena sine lege (No penalty without law). The rule that a person cannot be penalized for doing something that is not prohibited by law has long been a fundamental principle of free societies. Suicide is an act, not a disease. Preventing suicide, like preventing drunkenness, is the responsibility of the individual.

Re the efficacy of psychiatric medication in preventing “homelessness, suicide, poverty and violence,” one would think that with the plentitude of such medications, these problems would have at least declined among the so-called mentally ill. Yet, the data indicate that the opposite has occurred. So, just how effective is all this medicalization you so strongly advocate?

Miles

[chelmer]

Miles Miles Miles...Your writings are brilliant !!
However i think your work is done here.
I just had to subscribe to tell you this,...
Now, all there is to do, is for you to find a forum where your facts and findings will do someone some good !!
If only we could understand our own problems,then we probally would not be trying to find help at places like this.
I find myself in many of the situations that anxiety and depression bring upon us at times when we least expect it.
Its not easy to overcome these, especially when you have not been there !!
I suspect M**** has not.
Thank for allowing me this space to release my thoughts , brief as they are.

[Twizted]

[?] Miles, who the hell was talking about suicide? Why do you always bring up topics that not one person even mentioned? I think you really wish you had not screwed up your attempted suicide. Thats' why you are here(boo~Hoo). You need someone who will listen to you! If you ask me, I think you and JanRed 24 would get along great!!! You both have the same ideas! Telling all of us what to do? And how to do it? How does JanRed put it? We who are on medications are all a bunch of drug addict. And should get off our meds/eat right/ etc...etc... Wow, I didn't realise that this place was a place for such debates. What are people like that, doing in a place like this? Trying to intimidate all us Mentally Ill people [] Tee~Hee. Miles, my Dr. put me on some new medication. Guess what? Maybe now I will overcome my agoraphobia. (I know just a figmant of my imagination) lol. And we could go out for coffee. (NOT)... Anyhow, I hope that the people new to this sight. Are not frightened away by all the negative vibes here. There are truly nice people here. They are not all like Miles. hahahahahahaha. DEPRESSION IS REAL. AND IT IS NOT JUST IN THE MIND. Do you have something to add to this Miles? Hear from you soon Miles. Woot~Woot (won't beable to sleep all night now). ..Bye for now, Twizted.

EFFEXOR XR!!! Help!!! I can't stop sweating. Has anyone else ever had this problem???

[Twizted]

[:0] Oh my JanRed24, You sound just as intellegent as Miles. And your how old? (19) WOW, you must really get around. How do you know all that you do? You must also be problem free! But, here to judge all of us! "Way to go Jan".(claps)like a mental patient!
Well, nice to hear from you also JanRed /Twizted\...

EFFEXOR XR!!! Help!!! I can't stop sweating. Has anyone else ever had this problem???

[Miles]

Chelmer:

Perhaps consideration of the following will help clarify why I post on these sites and why, as you state, my work may (not) be done here:

Some here imply that free will is passé, superseded by modern neuroscience and genetics, which see man as little more than a robot. They contend that behavior is caused by the complicated processes involving neurotransmitters, chemical balances (or imbalances), and subatomic particles.

Put simply, some here would argue that we are all just highly complex billiard balls reacting to various internal and external forces outside our control. We may be conscious, but consciousness is just an impotent byproduct of physical processes, incapable of itself being a cause of anything in the physical world. (That view is called epiphenomenalism.) Vogue thinking about mind and consciousness in one way or another reduces mental activity to the physical activity of the brain. For some here, the mind is nothing but the brain.

The ramifications of such thinking imply that every human problem diagnosed as an illness to be “treated,” coercively if necessary, may be “treated” with chemicals. My concern here is politics – for the simple reason that, taken seriously, this view defines metaphysical freedom out of existence. The brain is a physical organ fully subject to the mechanistic laws of science. It cannot be free. And if metaphysical freedom is defined out of existence, so is political freedom. There is no point in talking about liberty if people cannot truly govern their own behavior.

Miles

[Karismic]

Miles..... whoa!!!! Would you please then break it down to me that if someone is DEPRESSED not just a little down but REALLY REALLY depressed... can't read... can't get out of bed... doesn't want to interact with anyone even her cat/dog have lost her love...... what do you think someone like this should do??? Should they not go and try to talk to someone.... maybe some doctors.. maybe some therapists maybe some friends.........maybe try some medication..... i mean what can go so wrong if someone is already suicidal or VERY VERY VERY depressed.... medication just might work.... if you don't try it you will never now... i thought like you many years ago.....i found in the last couple of years that medication did work for me and finding the right doctor..... its not a big deal..... i know if i stop taking my meds....right now for instance.. i will go right back to that awful darkness.....maybe in time i will try to get off of them but things are okay these days.... i tried for years to get out of the darkness on my own and cound not !!! Do what you will my love..... please let someone help you!!!

[JimBath]

Miles,

I'm so sorry that so many people here are trying to "kill the messenger" (as it were) of some very thoughtful insight that, were they to seriously consider it, might save them a lot of grief in the future. They just don't realize how much of a dangerous crutch it is to give one's own decision-making responsibilities over to another human being -- whether or not that other human being has so-called credentials allegedly proving he/she can handle the job of guiding another person's life.

Granted, some people caught in the claws of modern psychiatry and related profit-oriented medical sciences actually, no doubt, can and do benefit from such a relationship. But I am sure most people don't; and that the modern chemical fixes are more often killers than healers. Someone suggested good nutrition and exercise as a cure. I'd like to add simple vibrant sunshine to that list, and perhaps gardening or some other productive outdoor activity involving life and growing things. But perhaps most of all they should develop a dogged determination to beat their problems instead of forming protective shells around them, as they seem to have done in dealing with your obvious good sense.

Keep up the good work, Friend. I'm glad you're sharing this planet with me.

James H. Bath

[polka865]

[V]TO MILES: Obviously you are TRYING to sound educated!!!!!!! The emphasis on TRYING. I hope for those of you who have never experienced depression, anxiety or panic disorders that you never do, even you miles.... I think I have heard you on one of those stupid informercaials that say bla bla bla about "herbs cure cancer...and a bunch of other bull ******** that is all LIES to the public." I think you have one flunky who is following you, not even worth looking up who this was... I will not ever read or respond to such idioisms again....Everyone else I suggest you do the same.... Miles does not know what he is talking about... he is quoting from a text book from the 1950's when he or she was educated. Enough is enough... everyone have a good day and remember depression is real..anxiety is real...and panic attacks are real...WE ARE NOT CRAZY!! and there is help out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Miles]

Jim Bath:

Many thanks for the kind words my friend. I welcome your keen insights to the topic.

Perhaps unaware that he/she has done so, Polka865's rant supports my postings throughout this site ("WE ARE NOT CRAZY!!"). I speculate that the rant is a byproduct of limitations in clear reasoning brought on by a personal history of prescription psychiatric drug usage. Alas, the irony...

"There is no error so monstrous that it fails to find defenders among the ablest men." (Lord Acton)

Regards,
Miles

[JimBath]

Miles,

My thoughts exactly. "Alas, the irony..."

quote:Originally posted by Miles

Jim Bath:

Many thanks for the kind words my friend. I welcome your keen insights to the topic.

Perhaps unaware that he/she has done so, Polka865's rant supports my postings throughout this site ("WE ARE NOT CRAZY!!"). I speculate that the rant is a byproduct of limitations in clear reasoning brought on by a personal history of prescription psychiatric drug usage. Alas, the irony...

"There is no error so monstrous that it fails to find defenders among the ablest men." (Lord Acton)

Regards,
Miles

[Twizted]

[V] This place has failed with all attempt from those who do understand and care! I will no longer subject myself to such crazy ideas! We are all being fooled by the pharmaseutical companies. Who only wish to make money! So Miles has said over and over. I thought that this place would be a good place to come and get advice from those who have been where I seem to be? But this place turned out to be a really bad place if one needs a little caring and understanding!
I wish everyone here all the best now and in the future! Even to all the people who posted here. And had no real reason to do so! If I could have reported abuse? Miles you would have been my first. It was fun for a while. But, your persistance and trying to tell all of us what you thought was our real problem. (JUST GOT TO BE A LITTLE TOO MUCH)...I'd like to say good-bye to those who actually needed this sight! REMEMBER, NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS! WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE FEELING IS REAL...This sight has been a real disapointment!

EFFEXOR XR!!! Help!!! I can't stop sweating. Has anyone else ever had this problem???

[polka865]

[quote]Originally posted by Twizted

[V] This place has failed with all attempt from those who do understand and care! I will no longer subject myself to such crazy ideas! We are all being fooled by the pharmaseutical companies. Who only wish to make money! So Miles has said over and over. I thought that this place would be a good place to come and get advice from those who have been where I seem to be? But this place turned out to be a really bad place if one needs a little caring and understanding!
I wish everyone here all the best now and in the future! Even to all the people who posted here. And had no real reason to do so! If I could have reported abuse? Miles you would have been my first. It was fun for a while. But, your persistance and trying to tell all of us what you thought was our real problem. (JUST GOT TO BE A LITTLE TOO MUCH)...I'd like to say good-bye to those who actually needed this sight! REMEMBER, NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS! WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE FEELING IS REAL...This sight has been a real disapointment!

EFFEXOR XR!!! Help!!! I can't stop sweating. Has anyone else ever had this problem??


I am sorry twisted. I feel the same way. I am not even going to respond to the stupid comments of miles. That in itself shows he probobly needs some sort of Checkup from a qualified Doctor.
This thread is over for me.

[Lat]

Meghen,

From your post above you seem to state that psychiatric medication is effective in preventing suicide. On the contrary, psychiatric medication is a leading cause of suicide! You must not have heard of the very common side effect of psych meds called Akathisia (extreme agitation).

I was labeled a chronic schizophrenic and was forcefully drugged. The attacks of psych med induced Akathisia were hell to deal with. The only time I have ever tried committing suicide has been while on psych meds.

I fortunately escaped the psychiatric industry and got away from the forced drugging. My suicidal thoughts soon disappeared and I recovered.

Lat