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Depressed ever since I can remember...Opiates for depression...PLEASE help!
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    Unhappy Depressed ever since I can remember...Opiates for depression...PLEASE help!

    Hi everyone. This is my first post on this forum, so I don't know what to expect. If you're reading this, I thank you for taking some time out of your life, and I'd be extremely grateful for any help or guidance anyone can hopefully provide me.

    I have suffered from Major Depressive Disorder (MDD), severe Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), Body Dismorphic Disorder (BDD), and Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD) ever since I was 15 years old. I am now 35, and I have tried, literally,...EVERYTHING!

    I've been diagnosed with the above depressive disorders by MULTIPLE psychiatrists on both coasts, as well as internationally for TWO DECADES!

    I've gone through the usual suspects, such as all (I mean ALL of them when I say all) of the SSRI's (Paxil, Zoloft, Luvox, Prozac, Celexa, Lexapro, Effexor) for my depression. I've also been prescribed, mostly in vein also, Xanax, Klonopin, Valium, and Oxazepam for my anxiety.

    NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing. Little to No benefit. Just plenty of side effects!

    Psychotherapy (3 times a WEEK for YEARS, and THOUSANDS of dollars worth) helped to a small degree. However, nowhere near to an extent that one could consider successful.

    Three years ago, I came across a German newspaper article, which outlined that there are physicians who deal with patients who are abnormally severely depressed, such as myself, and treat them with opiates.

    I actually found a doctor in Germany who has been prescribing opiates for me, and it has been a LIFESAVER!!! At LONG last, I was free, and I was able to enjoy my life. I was very closely monitored to see if I got addicted to the point where I would need more and more every day, but luckily, I never needed a dosage adjustment after an appropriate dose was found. I take them at the SAME TIME each day, never more, never less. I don't get the euphoric feeling that I've been reading about a lot either.

    I can just BE OK...for the first time in my life, which has been miserable throughout my teenage years, and early adulthood.

    I'm sure a lot of doctors look at this as preposterous, but if you had to live my life, you would look for what I realize is a somewhat unorthodox type of therapy, but it WORKS! It...just...WORKS!

    Have any of you experienced similar situations?? Have you been able to find a doctor who is willing to prescribe opiates for your depression?

    PHYSICIANS: If you're reading this, can you please either contact me by way of Private Message, or in the forum here and let me know if you would be so kind as to see me in person, and make your own assessment.

    I am willing to fly to ANY of the 50 states, if that's what it takes. I DESPERATELY want to live my life, and although I can continue to travel to Europe to get my prescription (usually 4 months' worth at a time), and come back to L.A., which is what I've been doing, I would really like to find a doctor who is willing to help me here in the United States.

    A couple of additional brief facts about me: I do not drink. I do not smoke. I do not do any illicit drugs. Hell, I don't even drink coffee. And I'm tired of hearing how it's so "silly of me to be depressed at all" because I have so many things going for me in the way of looks, success in what I do for a living, etc.

    I honestly honestly just want to LIVE without having to board a transcontinental, and transatlantic flight to Europe where I've found that one doctor who has been amazing to me.

    I would love to get in touch with a doctor here in the U.S., even if it's only for a consultation/assessment. Again, I'm located in the Los Angeles area, but I'm willing to fly to ANY state.

    Thank you so much for listening!

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    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opiates_for_depression!? View Post
    Hi everyone. This is my first post on this forum, so I don't know what to expect. If you're reading this, I thank you for taking some time out of your life, and I'd be extremely grateful for any help or guidance anyone can hopefully provide me.

    I have suffered from Major Depressive Disorder (MDD), severe Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), Body Dismorphic Disorder (BDD), and Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD) ever since I was 15 years old. I am now 35, and I have tried, literally,...EVERYTHING!

    I've been diagnosed with the above depressive disorders by MULTIPLE psychiatrists on both coasts, as well as internationally for TWO DECADES!

    I've gone through the usual suspects, such as all (I mean ALL of them when I say all) of the SSRI's (Paxil, Zoloft, Luvox, Prozac, Celexa, Lexapro, Effexor) for my depression. I've also been prescribed, mostly in vein also, Xanax, Klonopin, Valium, and Oxazepam for my anxiety.

    NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing. Little to No benefit. Just plenty of side effects!

    Psychotherapy (3 times a WEEK for YEARS, and THOUSANDS of dollars worth) helped to a small degree. However, nowhere near to an extent that one could consider successful.

    Three years ago, I came across a German newspaper article, which outlined that there are physicians who deal with patients who are abnormally severely depressed, such as myself, and treat them with opiates.

    I actually found a doctor in Germany who has been prescribing opiates for me, and it has been a LIFESAVER!!! At LONG last, I was free, and I was able to enjoy my life. I was very closely monitored to see if I got addicted to the point where I would need more and more every day, but luckily, I never needed a dosage adjustment after an appropriate dose was found. I take them at the SAME TIME each day, never more, never less. I don't get the euphoric feeling that I've been reading about a lot either.

    I can just BE OK...for the first time in my life, which has been miserable throughout my teenage years, and early adulthood.

    I'm sure a lot of doctors look at this as preposterous, but if you had to live my life, you would look for what I realize is a somewhat unorthodox type of therapy, but it WORKS! It...just...WORKS!

    Have any of you experienced similar situations?? Have you been able to find a doctor who is willing to prescribe opiates for your depression?

    PHYSICIANS: If you're reading this, can you please either contact me by way of Private Message, or in the forum here and let me know if you would be so kind as to see me in person, and make your own assessment.

    I am willing to fly to ANY of the 50 states, if that's what it takes. I DESPERATELY want to live my life, and although I can continue to travel to Europe to get my prescription (usually 4 months' worth at a time), and come back to L.A., which is what I've been doing, I would really like to find a doctor who is willing to help me here in the United States.

    A couple of additional brief facts about me: I do not drink. I do not smoke. I do not do any illicit drugs. Hell, I don't even drink coffee. And I'm tired of hearing how it's so "silly of me to be depressed at all" because I have so many things going for me in the way of looks, success in what I do for a living, etc.

    I honestly honestly just want to LIVE without having to board a transcontinental, and transatlantic flight to Europe where I've found that one doctor who has been amazing to me.

    I would love to get in touch with a doctor here in the U.S., even if it's only for a consultation/assessment. Again, I'm located in the Los Angeles area, but I'm willing to fly to ANY state.

    Thank you so much for listening!
    I see one thing you have not tried yet...I realize I am out of line here.but you should stop by a church service at a different church for a few weeks.Maybe you will find one you like.Opiates are not the answer.Over time they will turn on you.It is not a good approach to mental health.I apologize for bringing religion in to this but you sound desperate on many levels.Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman48 View Post
    I see one thing you have not tried yet...I realize I am out of line here.but you should stop by a church service at a different church for a few weeks.Maybe you will find one you like.Opiates are not the answer.Over time they will turn on you.It is not a good approach to mental health.I apologize for bringing religion in to this but you sound desperate on many levels.Good luck.
    I have to agree with musicman, those Opiates will bite you in the a**.just when you don't expect them to...be very careful
    Good luck,Melinda

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman48 View Post
    I see one thing you have not tried yet...I realize I am out of line here.but you should stop by a church service at a different church for a few weeks.Maybe you will find one you like.Opiates are not the answer.Over time they will turn on you.It is not a good approach to mental health.I apologize for bringing religion in to this but you sound desperate on many levels.Good luck.



    For what it's worth musicman I agree with you 100%. You knew that I would. I know that there are some people on this forum who will want to argue with us and that is okay. I won't argue about it with anyone. But you're right regardless. Anyone that wants to argue just has no idea what we are talking about. I am not trying to be overly religious either. Drugs just don't fix depression over the long term. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 11-26-2008 at 12:29 AM.

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    money_chick is offline Member
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    Ive seen several studies lately treating Treatment Resistant Depression with Low Dose Naltrexone. This could be something to look into, as some doctors in the states are trying it now.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Thanks money_chick. There are actually tons of links on the low dose naltrexone therapy available by doing a google search. I have read lots of them. Low dose Naltrexone is being used for several different things now depression being one of them. Glad you brought that up. God bless.

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    carina1106 is offline New Member
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    Hi, Firstly, can I say that I totally appreciate what you are going through. I have had depression since the age of 14, can tell you the exact moment it started, but at that age it was put down to my age and thought that I would grow out of it. I didn't. I am now 45 and currently going through the worst, and longest, spell of depression that I have ever had. I have also tried the "usual suspects" and what used to work don't work any more. Prozac was actually my "favourite" as it helped me to keep working and function so that I convinced myself people could not tell - I found out later that they could! I eventually came off Prozac as I started having shaking fits which people did comment on and the feeling that the ground was coming up to meet me. I was also not liking the feeling of numbness that I was experiencing. At first it helped, then I wanted to feel and even, at times, self harmed just to feel something. Whilst on Prozac I couldn't cry. I now can't seem to stop crying. My psychiatrist has just discharged me as I missed 2 appointments - I have a fear of leaving the house and suffer panic attacks and anxiety and my ocd's get worse when I have to go out and she knew all of this. When I asked for a reason I was told that I did not need a psychiatrist as I was now on a course of tablets that they thought were suited to me and helping. I told them they weren't but they were not interested. So, good luck with your hunt for a sympathetic ear and if you find one in the UK please share as I desperately need someone who will listen to me. This time I fear I will not get over this spell of depression and see this as my life from now on. Good luck in your search, hope you get the help you deserve.

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    carina1106 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    I have to agree with musicman, those Opiates will bite you in the a**.just when you don't expect them to...be very careful
    Good luck,Melinda
    I have to disagree with you. I am a catholic and because of my problems leaving the house it is a while since I went to church, I used to go regularly. I still pray, at home. I don't blame my illness on God, I don't expect him to rid me of it either. I pray it will leave me one day and I can live again, but, pray alone does not work, and I am a strong believer. I wish it were that easy to get better.

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    With all due respect to everyone who disagreed with my taking opiates for depression, I think I understand. However! I don't think you guys do, when depression is so deeply rooted that it adversely affects every part of my life. I also have OCD, and anxiety, and there are also days where I do not leave the house.

    Carina, I have to say that I not only sympathize, but empathize with you, as it sounds like I'm going through a lot of the same problems you are going through yourself. I feel badly for you, as I KNOW what it's like!

    I'm 35 now, and if anything, I am angry that I did not find the opiates sooner! I know, I know, I know I am totally addicted, but I actually DID quit for a few months, and it was astoundingly "easy".

    I simply refuse...I refuse to live in pain all of my life, and the opiates simply help a great deal! So until there is something new I can try, I will remain on them. I actually found two doctors (one in Europe, one here in the U.S.) who are willing to prescribe me my medication.

    And again, for me, it's not about getting high, or having to take more and more and more of these drugs. I take the fact that I'm addicted seriously, but the benefit I gain from taking opiates FAR outweighs the fact that I'm addicted to them.

    I have actually found several people on the Internet who are in the same boat as I. Carina, if you'd like, send me a PM/email if you'd like to discuss this further in private, or at least like-minded people.

    To all others: I really appreciate your kind words, but you just don't understand. And you know what, be glad! Be glad that you don't. Your opinion as to this subject may be different if you felt the brutal onslaught of depression on a daily...hell, even hourly basis.

    Yake care everyone. Life is GOOD! For some of us, it just takes drastic steps like these to be able to say that and mean it and believe it!

    Peace!

    Carina, feel free to send me a PM to discuss this further.

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    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opiates_for_depression!? View Post
    With all due respect to everyone who disagreed with my taking opiates for depression, I think I understand. However! I don't think you guys do, when depression is so deeply rooted that it adversely affects every part of my life. I also have OCD, and anxiety, and there are also days where I do not leave the house.

    Carina, I have to say that I not only sympathize, but empathize with you, as it sounds like I'm going through a lot of the same problems you are going through yourself. I feel badly for you, as I KNOW what it's like!

    I'm 35 now, and if anything, I am angry that I did not find the opiates sooner! I know, I know, I know I am totally addicted, but I actually DID quit for a few months, and it was astoundingly "easy".

    I simply refuse...I refuse to live in pain all of my life, and the opiates simply help a great deal! So until there is something new I can try, I will remain on them. I actually found two doctors (one in Europe, one here in the U.S.) who are willing to prescribe me my medication.

    And again, for me, it's not about getting high, or having to take more and more and more of these drugs. I take the fact that I'm addicted seriously, but the benefit I gain from taking opiates FAR outweighs the fact that I'm addicted to them.

    I have actually found several people on the Internet who are in the same boat as I. Carina, if you'd like, send me a PM/email if you'd like to discuss this further in private, or at least like-minded people.

    To all others: I really appreciate your kind words, but you just don't understand. And you know what, be glad! Be glad that you don't. Your opinion as to this subject may be different if you felt the brutal onslaught of depression on a daily...hell, even hourly basis.

    Yake care everyone. Life is GOOD! For some of us, it just takes drastic steps like these to be able to say that and mean it and believe it!

    Peace!

    Carina, feel free to send me a PM to discuss this further.
    With all due respect to you as well.Opiates are not the answer to your problem.You are on your way to even more darkness down the road.I really feel bad for your situation.The opiates will quit working and you will need more and more.I wish the best for you though.You will go thru hell eventually with this type of mental health therapy.I hope you recover soon though.Keep us posted on how you are doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman48 View Post
    With all due respect to you as well.Opiates are not the answer to your problem.You are on your way to even more darkness down the road.I really feel bad for your situation.The opiates will quit working and you will need more and more.I wish the best for you though.You will go thru hell eventually with this type of mental health therapy.I hope you recover soon though.Keep us posted on how you are doing.
    Musicman,

    Thank you for your kindness and respect. It certainly did not go unnoticed.

    And you're probably right. Opiates will not be the answer forever. However, for the time being, three years into taking opiates, and never needing more than exactly prescribed for me, I will continue on with this, what I view for me personally only, a tremendously beneficial treatment.

    I don't know if you can believe this, but I actually stopped taking them for a little less than a month last year. 27 days to be exact, with the help of three medications. I was very surprised at how "easy" it was. Basically 3 brutal days, but I had slept for much of those 72 hours, and I experienced very manageable side effects. Days 4 and 5 were mainly discomfort and already opiate-free. I was a member of a different forum at the time, and they were recommended to me.

    Believe me, if I felt I needed more and more and more every day, the red flags would shoot up, and I would do something about, i.e. stop. But I guess I'm lucky that way, as I had read so many people who had to go to detox, then relapsed, went through what they described as sheer hell on earth. I didn't.

    I also constantly check to see if anything new in the way of psychotropic drugs are getting FDA approval. And I am doing that not only domestically, but internationally as well. I consider, and am treating opiates, as an absolute last resort. But I am where I am because I have tried, literally, everything available to this day. I have a lot of hope that I will not have to remain on opiates for the rest of my life, but I'm done suffering. You have NO idea as to how glad I am that I am virtually depression-free due to the opiates I'm taking.

    But if and when the day comes, and a new drug is conceived by a pharmaceutical company, and if it ends up working for me, I'll gladly stop taking opiates.

    I know I may sound a bit standoff-ish with this post, but I don't mean to be, and I'm sorry if you're perceiving it that way. I'm just not beating around the bush, as doing so would serve no useful purpose.

    I am where I am because of a courageous doctor who trusts and understands me. You speak of opiates taking me down to sheer hell. You know what, if I didn't have the opiates to rely on, I would be living sheer hell right now, because that's how horrific my depressive disorders are!

    There is no need to feel sorry for myself. For the first time in my life, I am, and have been for the last three years, FREE. And freedom is a beautiful thing.

    Thanks to everybody for your insight and support. You guys are great. And I wouldn't mind hearing additional thoughts.
    RockRoll and SirRheal like this.

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    Plz_help is offline New Member
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    i can relate so much to this im sorry to say

    im a new member here but with a similar story (i have not been prescribed opiates yet) and am hoping you are still around so we could talk.....

    ive been like this since i can remember... even when nothing was "wrong"...

    ive tried everything too and lately after reading this have been searching the web about and reading about how alot of ppl seem to think that ppl ARE "naturally opiate-less" or have less opiates in them NATURALLY than others...

    this whole roundabout with doctors and drugs really has me looking into this, mostly, out of sheer desperation

    i hope u are still around, i would love to talk to u.... i too am willing to travel anywhere if it means i dont have to live like this anymore....

    xoxoxoxoxox

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    1fminkler is offline New Member
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    I'll make this brief, since I don't know if you'll even log back on here and see it. I have been depressed since I was about 4 years old, which is almost as far back as my recallable memories go. I am not one of those people who is just sad and in total ignorance, claims very outwardly to be what they think is depressed. I know very well what defines Major Depressive Disorder, and that I have been living with it for almost the entirety of my 25 years on this planet, although I never tell anyone that. No one has ever been able to tell, either. However, I lost hope long ago after going through so many counselors, therapists, doctors, and medications that they all might as well have been waterproof tissues coming from the same insistently reassurant box. No one understands the severity of my depression because I have never had any desire to kill myself. If you have the options of life or death, it just seems logical to me to choose the one that still leaves the other open. Anyway, i'll get to the point, since I meant for this to be much shorter than it already is. I just started researching the use of opiates to treat depression and I stumbled across this forum. I would really like to talk to you about this. It really is a last resort, but I know that for me, it works. The problem is finding a doctor who understands that there is logic behind it, let alone one who will listen objectively. I really hope that you read this and that you respond. I would prefer that it be in private message. I tried to find a way to send this to you via private message, but couldn't. Either way, please respond. I would really appreciate it.

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    Jack71 is offline New Member
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    I would also be interested in discussing this topic with you further. It looks like this thread has been inactive for quite some time though. Also, I don't see a way to e-mail or pm anyone. Are these functions totally disabled for everyone?

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    The "quick reply" option is still functional but admin had deleted the private message option for communications. That as well as sending emails through the forum privately have been deleted. I am using the "quick reply" method right now. You just click the third button to the right under the existing post and you will be able to "quick reply" easily. It's a good option. Hope that helps. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Jack71 is offline New Member
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    Ok, but the quick reply function still does not get me in touch with the original poster...

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    John Weelsen is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opiates_for_depression!? View Post
    Musicman,

    Thank you for your kindness and respect. It certainly did not go unnoticed.

    And you're probably right. Opiates will not be the answer forever. However, for the time being, three years into taking opiates, and never needing more than exactly prescribed for me, I will continue on with this, what I view for me personally only, a tremendously beneficial treatment.

    I don't know if you can believe this, but I actually stopped taking them for a little less than a month last year. 27 days to be exact, with the help of three medications. I was very surprised at how "easy" it was. Basically 3 brutal days, but I had slept for much of those 72 hours, and I experienced very manageable side effects. Days 4 and 5 were mainly discomfort and already opiate-free. I was a member of a different forum at the time, and they were recommended to me.

    Believe me, if I felt I needed more and more and more every day, the red flags would shoot up, and I would do something about, i.e. stop. But I guess I'm lucky that way, as I had read so many people who had to go to detox, then relapsed, went through what they described as sheer hell on earth. I didn't.

    I also constantly check to see if anything new in the way of psychotropic drugs are getting FDA approval. And I am doing that not only domestically, but internationally as well. I consider, and am treating opiates, as an absolute last resort. But I am where I am because I have tried, literally, everything available to this day. I have a lot of hope that I will not have to remain on opiates for the rest of my life, but I'm done suffering. You have NO idea as to how glad I am that I am virtually depression-free due to the opiates I'm taking.

    But if and when the day comes, and a new drug is conceived by a pharmaceutical company, and if it ends up working for me, I'll gladly stop taking opiates.

    I know I may sound a bit standoff-ish with this post, but I don't mean to be, and I'm sorry if you're perceiving it that way. I'm just not beating around the bush, as doing so would serve no useful purpose.

    I am where I am because of a courageous doctor who trusts and understands me. You speak of opiates taking me down to sheer hell. You know what, if I didn't have the opiates to rely on, I would be living sheer hell right now, because that's how horrific my depressive disorders are!

    There is no need to feel sorry for myself. For the first time in my life, I am, and have been for the last three years, FREE. And freedom is a beautiful thing.

    Thanks to everybody for your insight and support. You guys are great. And I wouldn't mind hearing additional thoughts.
    Glad to see resolving of your question. But i'd like to recommend - be careful with opiates ... it will cause dependence.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Weelsen View Post
    Glad to see resolving of your question. But i'd like to recommend - be careful with opiates ... it will cause dependence.



    That guy is gone and hasn't been here in over a year. He had three posts. I'm afraid he won't read your reply.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack71 View Post
    Ok, but the quick reply function still does not get me in touch with the original poster...



    The quick reply function just makes you the next post, but it's quicker than doing a "quote" reply. You will just come up as the last poster using the quick reply function. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    mareke is offline Junior Member
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    The issue of using opiates to treat depression is an interesting one that I believe medical authorities should consider as a possible option in cases of long term depression that has been resistant to treatment. When I was taking Tramadol (which has an opiate like effect but isn’t considered an opiate) I wasn’t depressed but I realised that it might potentially be useful to treat depression because it had a calming effect causing you to not worry and induced a slight mood elevation if you took enough (say 150 mg or more). This calming effect and mood elevation could conceivably make a depressed person feel better and enable the person to function in the world and socialise rather than isolate which would also help with the depression. Sure taking the drug would not do anything to fix the underlying cause of the depression but neither do anti-depressants. If anti-depressants work by helping to correct low serotonin/dopamine levels etc in the brain why not an opiate to do the same thing if the opiate worked and anti-depressants didn’t?

    The main reason why doctors in a country like the US would not consider the use of opiates to treat depression is probably because of the stigma associated with opiates of addiction and dependency (as well as side effects) that result from long term use but if the opiate worked and enabled a depressed person to function well, why not? For the depressed person I’d imagine dependency would be a small price to pay much the same as a person in chronic pain would regard dependency as a small price to pay for living pain free. Use of the drug would need to be as a last resort and strictly monitored to ensure the depressed person was taking the amount prescribed at the intervals prescribed. It has probably never been considered because of the issues I’ve mentioned which is too bad if you are a long term chronically depressed person and nothing has worked. In such cases I believe it’s worth a try.

  21. #21
    methadonfriendly826 is offline Junior Member
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    Default opiates work for my depression as well

    Hey just thought >> reply to your post and tell you my experience. Opiates work great for my depression too. I also have a ruptured disc and a cist in growing in my shoulder i need surgery to drain the fluid. Ive been on methadone for almost a year now because as i was taking the pain medicine i slowly over a period of time got addicted and my doctor recommended me to a local clinic. It has been a lifesaver. I will also say this, it works great for depression. Before when i was depressed i would just lay around and feel sorry for myself, but now i really do believe that my becoming addicted has been a lifesaver. If i never would have tried opiates i would still be painfully depressed and prolly would have blown my head off. Now i only have some pain and its definetly not as bad as it was when i first had my injury. I still have some pain but i can deal with it. I dont plan on being on methadone forever in fact i hope to be completely off of it by next summer. I start my detox next week. Ive detoxed off of opiates once already and know what its like. So i know i can do it again.

  22. #22
    babidolli22 is offline Junior Member
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    To methadonefriendly826 . I think that's crazy to say becoming addicted to opiates was a lifesaver. i guess you haven't been through the total hell,almost dying because of such bad withdrawal from not having the opiates,and the horrible kicking is the worst. I am on methadone for a year now also and although it has helped me become "drug free from the street",I hate it. It makes me more tired than any other opiate I ever tried and I think the methadone makes me depressed. And not to mention the anxiety you get when your afraid to get sick or if you feel a flu comiong on,you freak out because you automatically think it's withdrawal. I don't think methadone is the answer for depression at all,if anything it is another CRUTCH because it still causes addiction and you still need it everyday to stay "normal' without getting sick.
    I really hope it works out for you but I think you might change your mind one day. Oh,and you have no idea how the w/d from methadone feels it's totally different and way worse than >>>>>> detox,trust me.

  23. #23
    mareke is offline Junior Member
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    While what you say about methadone being hard to withdraw from is no doubt true I stand by my earlier post about milder opiates like tramadol being a possible treatment option for depression particularly in cases of long standing depression that has not responded to other conventional forms of treatment. While on tramadol you experience a mild mood lift, feel energised and tend to worry less all of which could be enough to get a depressed person up and functioning and then other treatments for depression might have a better chance of working. Unlike methadone withdrawing from tramadol while not pleasant involves a few days of bearable suffering and then you are pretty much back to normal. There are people on the forum that admit to having been depressed for 20 or more years and all forms of treatment have failed. If I were in such a situation and faced the prospect of being chronically depressed for the rest of my life I think I’d prefer taking an opiate and being on it for the rest of my life if it lifted me out of my depression and gave me quality of life. The medical profession however seems to regard the issue as being in the too hard basket-better to let people who have long standing intractable depression suffer than treat them with an opiate that causes dependence and withdrawal symptoms when stopped.

  24. #24
    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Exclamation Good Lord...

    Opiates-for-depression,

    I don't usually visit this forum, focusing more on the "need to talk" topic. At that forum, I tend to find folks who realize they are in trouble - and are earnest about asking for help to improve their lives. Somehow, I ended up here - and reading through this thread just boggles my mind, at best - and horrifies me, at worst.

    This kind of "advice" - taking opiates for depression - simply terrifies me. If the original poster wants to continue on her path of treating depression with her addiction to opiates, so be it. Many have taken the time to educate her about the dangers. I find it utterly insane, personally.

    But to dispense this "advice" on a board (about "drug information") full of people who are struggling - is downright evil. How anyone can suggest that anyone else is better off addicted to opiates than depressed... just stuns me.

    I know depression - I was diagnosed with dysthymia (chronic depression) at 17. I know severe chronic pain - I've had migraines (often daily) since the age of 12. But I know addiction, as well... intimately. By the grace of God, I've been clean and sober over 6 years now. (And, more than 11 years, prior to that last relapse with pills.) And yet, my depression is in remission and my migraines are now under control.

    HOW? I stopped looking for answers in an addictive drug - and started looking for solutions that would IMPROVE my life, not cripple it. It took WORK - not a quick fix of a pill. It took time, more than the 20 minutes for a pill to dissolve in my belly. I've been on this journey toward healing of my mind and body for most of my adult life - and it isn't an easy path. But it is the only way I've found any lasting peace.

    SURE, opiates feel great for a while - in fact, that can go on for years; it did for me. I took narcotics for over a decade before the truly devastated my life. I felt fully 'entitled' to continue to take narcotics - as I saw that as some kind of a godsend.

    I thought I was different - hahaha - we all do! I call it "terminal uniqueness," as we spout our labels and diagnosises proudly, giving us the confirmation we want to have to justify our drug use. To be blunt, that's total BS. Addiction is addiction, regardless of how we got there, what diagnosis we had or how long we'd been suffering. It is the nature of the drug, itself - it builds tolerance - we can't avoid that. In time, we need MORE of the drug to get the same desired effect. No one is unique to that.

    I was playing Russian Roulette with my very life. The depression not only returned, it came back with a VENGANCE. There ain't nothing like the depression that comes about WITH addictive drug use - it's horrifying. I would never make any suggestion to anyone that may lead them to that place. Good lord, how thoughtless!

    Of course, we all have free will - and Opiates-for-depression, you have every right to continue to post the internet in search of a doctor who will forego his Hypocratic Oath to "first, do no harm." There are such doctors out there, especially if you pay them well-enough.

    But do not, please, give advice on a topic that may very easily lead someone else into a nightmare that they may never escape.

    God bless,
    Ruth

  25. #25
    mareke is offline Junior Member
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    I agree with you Ruth that in general prescribing opiates for depression is not a good idea but I’m not as certain as you are that it is wrong in every single case. I can see how it would be seen by a lot of well meaning people as solving nothing and potentially adding one problem to another and how it could be argued that physicians would be forsaking their Hippocratic Oath to first do no harm. In general I believe this to be correct because there are significant potential dangers in using opiates to treat depression particularly if used by doctors as a convenient way of making depressed people feel better.

    The proposition however was not that depressed people routinely be prescribed opiates for depression but rather that in cases of long term chronic depression that hadn’t responded to any of the traditional forms of treatment the use of milder opiates (such as the one I mentioned Tramadol) under strict medical supervision could in some cases be a possible treatment option.

    I agree that ideally depressed people should work through their problems and come out the other side but in reality a percentage of depressed people don’t respond to treatment and don’t come out the other side and instead stay depressed or commit suicide. Do we argue that these people are better off dead rather than taking an opiate that may well have enabled them to keep going or is the 'evil' here the view that prescribing opiates is wrong in every case? There are exceptions to every rule and in my opinion in some cases the use of milder opiates (not strong highly addictive opiates but milder ones that can be stopped without too much suffering) to treat depression could be the lesser of two evils.

    Consider for example the case of a psychiatrist that had been treating a depressed person for a long period of time and seen no improvement despite trying all possible forms of treatment and the patient was in danger of committing suicide. Would it be wrong to prescribe such a person one of the milder opiates (explaining to the patient the psychological and physical dependence that would result from using the opiate long term) so the person was able to function in the world and continue treatment or would it be more wrong to insist that the person ‘work through his problems’ while knowing that suicide was more likely?

    If the depressed person committed suicide would the doctor rightly be justified in arguing that morally he couldn't have prescribed an opiate because he was obliged to first do no harm as per his Hippocratic Oath? Some might argue that it would be evil for such a doctor to hide behind the Hippocratic Oath or a simplistic principle such as it’s wrong under all circumstances to prescribe opiates for depression when it's possible that doing so in some cases might gain sufficient time for the problem to be resolved and save the person from a worse fate than being dependant on an opiate.

    If you had not taken the drugs that you did Ruth would you have gotten over your depression quicker or did the drugs give you time to gain the life experience you needed to overcome your problems? You would probably say that you would have gotten over your problems quicker but you’ll never know because you’d have to live both scenarios to be sure which choice was the better choice. Even if you were certain that you'd have worked through your problems quicker had you not taken drugs it can’t be said that this applies to all people.

    In the majority of cases it probably is wrong to use opiates to treat depression but it’s conceivable that there are exceptions where it could be the lesser of two evils. In real life the choice is often not between a clear right or a clear wrong but a subjective judgment call between the probable lesser of two evils where the choice e.g. prescribing a mild opiate might gain sufficient time for the problem to eventually be resolved.

    It’s highly unlikely that in the foreseeable future opiates will be prescribed for depression in countries like the US (or Australia where I live) because of the widespread problems that the inappropriate use of drugs have caused. People tend to see any drugs that cause dependence as bad per se and only justifiable in cases such as chronic physical pain where the need is undeniable. Depression is a kind of psychological pain and using opiates to treat psychological pain in most people’s minds is seen as being on par with using street drugs to feel good. It’s too emotive an issue and too open to potential problems to be allowed as a treatment for depression. In Germany apparently some doctors do treat some cases of depression with opiates. It would be interesting to know what guidelines exist for doing this and how effective they feel it has been.
    Last edited by mareke; 10-26-2009 at 12:41 PM.

  26. #26
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    Of course opiates will take away depression. They are made to fire up those parts of your brain that feel pleasure and don't feel pain. But what a fraud and lie it really is. Do you stay on narcotics forever to conquer depression? How do you know when to stop? And how then do you deal with withdrawal. My take is that withdrawing from narcotics will bring back depression ten fold. I don't believe any narcotics are "mild". When you are on an opiate long term, withdrawal sucks, period. There are MANY treatments for depression, many many different pills. Sometimes its trial and error, finding the right treatment. Opiate treatment for depression is the worst idea I've ever heard of. And yes, I was an opiate addict. And sure, when I was high, I didn't feel depressed. But when I came to the realization that I could not continue doing what I was doing, and when I had to suffer withdrawal, more than once, boy, was I depressed.

  27. #27
    Bonemeal is offline New Member
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    I have Spinal Stenosis, as well as an impacted disc on my sciatic nerve. It's quite painful, and I have been on virtually every prescription opiate over the course the last three years (dating back to 2006). Speaking from experience, while opiates can relieve depression, this is fairly short-term. Over time, to achieve the same euphoria, your dosage would have to be increased to potentially life-threatening levels. At the beginning of this year, I was on a combination of Lortab 7.5mg/500mg 5x daily, and MS Contin 60mg 3x daily. I was able to get off the morphine, and I was grateful for that, as the side-effects were quite harsh (severe constipation, constant lack of energy even though I, too, suffer from severe depression, and a feeling of drunkenness).

    Now, I am purely on Vicodin 7.5mg Hydrocodone/325mg acetaminophen 4x daily. I don't get high at all from it. Actually, to achieve the euphoric feelings (or high), it would take me so many Lortabs/Vicodins I would likely O.D.

    Suffice to say, although I think there could be some psychiatric use for narcotics short-term, long-term wouldn't be so good.

    BTW, I suffer from severe depression, OCD, GAD, SAD, Borderline Personality Disorder, and medically-induced Tardive Dyskenisia (SP), so I really can relate and see where you're coming from.
    Last edited by Bonemeal; 10-27-2009 at 07:20 AM.

  28. #28
    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Lightbulb Maybe this may help to explain...

    Hmmm... let me try this analogy. Say, a person had a problem with depression; a serious problem, that interfered with their day-to-day life. It was hard to keep up with their job, hard to manage their lives. They felt no joy, only burdens. Even getting out of bed was a chore. They had tried many drugs to help, and nothing did the trick. One day, they discovered that having a glass of wine would ease all of the depression symptoms. Wow. What relief. A warm glow came over them, and they could relax. Now feeling more at peace, they able to get things done. Just one glass of wine did the trick, so it was no big deal.

    Trouble is, a few hours later - all the depressed feelings returned. Hmmm. One more glass of wine, and it vanished. They got back to life, back to doing the things that they needed to do, and they could even laugh in the process.

    Perhaps they even went to counseling now - even though they had found a form of relief - they knew they needed more. Trouble is, taking that glass of wine every few hours was numbing them... numbing their thinking, numbing their reasoning, numbing their experience of valid, human emotions. Even though they were far from 'drunk,' the fact is, their feelings were being anesthesized. Still, they tried to talk things out with a counselor. They explored their childhood, traumatic events, triggers for depression - but, keep in mind, while pursing this counseling, ALL emotions have been numbed by this regular wine usage. Even though they stuck to a schedule of just one glass of wine every, say, 4 hours, it was at a routine level in their blood.

    No, they weren't intoxicated. They probably could still pass any field sobriety test, if they'd been pulled over driving. But... numbing is numbing. Not only did they numb the depression that they wanted to be rid of - but they numbed the experience of other emotions, like anger. Anger is a normal human emotion, and a normal reaction to some things in life.

    So... they are trying to do counseling, while somewhat numbed by the wine - and they find some of the underlying issues to their depression. Perhaps they were abused or neglected, and they had repressed it. Now, seeing what had happened, they needed to get through the feelings that had been bottled up, disguised as depression. Depression is often referred to as 'anger turned inward.' The way to get past traumatic emotional injury in our past, we have to feel and express that feeling OUTward. We have to get it out of us, as bottling it up only kept us depressed.

    Can that person do that process? They are numbed - by the wine - can they experience and work through the genuine anger from the situation they repressed? Oh no. They will get angry, perhaps enraged - but it will be fueled by the alcohol that is in them. It won't be the expression of genuine, real feelings, as they need to do.

    So the idea of fully delving further into our 'underlying issues' is not possible, when the feelings that are uncovered (which is inevitable) are masked by a mood-altering drug - like wine. OR... like an opiate. Same issue.

    This is just ONE piece of why I say that opiate use for depression - is horrifying.

    There's a million other pieces to this nightmarish idea: Can that person, who is taking that glass of wine every 4 hours, to ease their depression (as it works for them - and nothing else would!!!) - be considered SAFE to drive? Would YOU put your child in their car? Hmmm. I seriously doubt it.

    How about if you had that same person WORKING for you, meeting with clients, making decisions. What kind of job performance could that person provide? Predictably? Are their eyes clear, when others look at them? Are their decision-making skills fully functional?

    How about this? The wine (or opiate) does not stay at a constant level in our bodies; that's not its nature. So, when we first take it, there is a spike in the level of the relief, the 'feeling good' part. But, as the hours pass between 'doses,' the level in our blood drops. What happens? We not only return to feeling those depressed feelings, that depression is exacerbated by clearing up from the drug. Our blood level is not constant - so our mood is never level, and our emotions take off on a roller coaster - up and down throughout the day. Is this better than being depressed???

    Think this through!!! The idea of taking an opiate - a mood-altering, mind-altering, addictive substance - because it makes you feel better for the moment, and will temporarily ease your depression - is just totally ill-conceived.

    Not everything that makes us feel better - is good for us!!! In fact, many are downright dangerous.

    This example is not even mentioning the addiction factor - which is huge. Does this add any light to my concerns about this? I do hope so. I'd just hate to see anyone think that this is a valid option to treating depression.

    Blessings,
    Ruth


  29. #29
    methadonfriendly826 is offline Junior Member
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    Default i dont recommend it

    Yes i did say before that that opiates work for my depression. But just because it works for me (sometimes) doesnt mean it works for everyone. I know people who have taken opiates and it actually had a reverse effect making them energetic and depressed. And when i said that it was the best thing that ever happened to me I WAS NOT talking about being hooked, i was talking about getting treatment. I do not advocate or condone anybody taking opiates for depression it might work for a short time but in the end it makes things worse. Trust me i had a pretty expensive habit before i stopped and am still regretting it. I lost alot because of opiate addiction. I in no way shape or form think it was a good thing.

  30. #30
    Phidippus is offline New Member
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    Default My shrink prescribes opiates.

    The best way to treat treatment resistant OCD is with a multi-faceted approach. OCD involves a lot of problems with the reward pathways of the brain and several neurotransmitters are involved. OCD involves several different receptors, mostly H2, M4, NK1, NMDA, and non-NMDA glutamate receptors. The receptors 5-HT1D, 5-HT2C, and the μ opioid receptor exert a secondary effect. The central dysfunction[clarification needed] of OCD may involve the receptors nk1, non-NMDA glutamate receptors, and NMDA, whereas the other receptors could simply exert secondary modulatory effects. The orbitofrontal cortex (OFC), the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPC), the head of the caudate nucleus and the thalamus are all implicated in OCD. A dysfunction of these networks at one or several stages will result in the emergence and maintenance of repetitive thoughts and characteristic OCD behavior.

    I have treatment resistant OCD and I hit it from all angles. I use Lexapro which hits the 5ht receptors, which in turn modulates glutamate. I use Dexedrine which also modifies glutamate in two separate regions of the brain. I use Geodon which modulates Dopaminergic transmission, which in turn modulates glutamatergic transmissions. I also take Keppra which modulate non-NMDA glutamate receptors. To top it off I take Tramadol PRN which hits the μ opioid receptor and Gabitril which modulates GABA. All with little or no side effects - Geodon and Keppra make me a little sleepy.

    Morphine Sulfate is an opiate and is listed as an augmentation strategy for treating OCD in the APA guidelines. My psychiatrist prescribes opiates for treatment of OCD and depression and I'm sure he'd be happy to talk with you. BUT, I really recommend you take an SSRI along with the opiate to really get the best results. Again, OCD is a complex disorder which involves dysfunction of several key brain areas.

    Please contact me if you'd like more info and if you'd like me to put you in touch with my psychiatrist.

    P
    Gatina likes this.

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