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Cutting Opana ER 20mg
I have a friend going through some issues right now with drug addiction... I'm helping her taper down from Opana ER 20mg. My DOC was always norco/vicodin so I'm not too familiar with this... when I tapered I was able to get to a point of cutting the pills in half and my withdraw was minimal. I told her this and she took it to mean she should cut hers in half as well... even though I never told her she should do it.
Anyway... I read that you should not do this and it could provide a lethal dose of the morphine. How dangerous is it to cut the Opana ER in half? Would it be the same if the pills are cut in 4th's as well?
THanks for any help
THere is no danger in cutting Opana ER
Oh and if you plan to taper fine, but at some point you are going to have to get a different drug than Opana, its STRONG it isnt morphine Ive abused it alot its oxymorphone and the only thing stronger that is prescribed I can thihnk of is FEntanyl
I'm not sure she's getting these legally... so I'm thinking she doesn't have much of a choice on the taper part. Her withdraw is going to suck but I think it's going to be better than if she stopped completely where she was at.
So what's this I'm reading about getting the full dose at once if you cut it? That can't be fatal?
I have no clue, but if someone truly figures out how to get a full dose of opana er by just cutting them please have them contact me. Ive tried EVERYTHING to defeat the time release nothing works, but hell snorting 10mg ER is pretty intense anyway well if your tolerance isnt that big or anything, if she was taking these OPANAs orally i dnt think she has TOO much to worry about cause the oral BA is like what 5 maybe 10%
Originally Posted by amanda28
Last edited by ddcmod; 06-01-2011 at 01:51 PM.
Do not cut Opana ER in half... It is an extended release tablet. Cutting most extended release tablets cause dumping of the medication early in the release phase.
Do nut cut er tabs
who the hell are these people doing giving lethal advice on here saying its okay to cut opana ER? HEre is what it says on the medication label.
WARNING: POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE, IMPORTANCE OF PROPER PATIENT SELECTION AND LIMITATIONS OF USE.
See full Prescribing Information for complete boxed warning.
•Opana® ER contains oxymorphone which is an opioid agonist and a Schedule II controlled substance with an abuse liability similar to other opioid analgesics.
•Oxymorphone can be abused in a manner similar to other opioid agonists, legal or illicit. This should be considered when prescribing or dispensing Opana® ER in situations where the physician or pharmacist is concerned about an increased risk of misuse, abuse, or diversion.
•Opana® ER is NOT intended for use as an as needed analgesic.
Opana® ER tablets are to be swallowed whole and are not to be broken, chewed, dissolved, or crushed as this leads to rapid release and absorption of a potentially fatal dose of oxymorphone.
Last edited by shybaybe2003; 06-02-2011 at 02:46 PM.
It can say whatever it wants, cutting opana doesnt do a damn thing, and i am the guy saying it. If you can prove that cutting the opanas actually releases more have at it but i am confident it releases NO MORE than usual. The mech that is used is on the molecular level. You really think big pharma would pump billions into a abuse deterrent only to be defeated by cutting the pill in half, PLEASE
Originally Posted by shybaybe2003
Here in fact instead of just reading a warning on the manufacture website which is put there for legality reasons, read this post and understand what I mean about the timerx-n system used by OPana
First off, this information has not been tested or reviewed with actual product, but is instead the end result of a discussion with a two friends. One is pharmacology graduate student and the other a molecular biology PhD canidate. By all accounts, this should work, but don't get pissy if it doesn't.
The key to Opana's new TIMERx-N delievery system is a polysaccaharide gel matrix made with locust bean gum and xanthan gum. These two "gums" create a semiporous, waterproof barrier which allows the oxymorphone to slowly escape from the gum matrix.
Here's how it works... You swallow the pill. The pill sits in your stomach and slowly absobs water. As the water passes through the xanthan gum and locust bean gum it "trades places" with the oxymorphone molecules. This is essentially osmosis that is being mediated by a semiporous gel matrix.
Okay, this was basicly the idea with Oxycontin, but as we all know it is easily defeated by crushing. As my soon-to-be-pharmacist friend tells me, this is because the Oxy gel matrix does not encompass every single oxymorphone molecule. In Opana, or, more precisely, in the TIMERx-N, it pretty much does.
Therefore, if your crush it, it doesn't matter.
So, how to defeat it... According to the molecular biology guy, it is really very simple.
1. Crush the pills to increase surface area.
2. Add body-temperature water with a Ph-level near human somach acid. (Hot water with citric acid).
3. Maintain temperature and Ph for eight to tweleve hours.
If you evaporate the water, the gel matrix will not evaporate. You'll be left with powdered oxymorphone and binders. They don't go away. The polysaccaharide gel matrix still exists in the solution. It has not been completely dissolved. Instead, all the oxymorphone has traded places with the water. Essentially, you tricked the pill into thinking it was sitting in your stomach for half a day.
Hope this helps...
If I get some Opana I'll try it, but no promises.
Im no professional, but im a pharmacy technician and i work with dozens of pharmacists every day.
Originally Posted by amanda28
I have had many questions of patients calling in and nurses calling in(my pharmacy provides services for nursing homes and assisted living facilities, over 120) and my pharmacists always tell them DO NOT CUT.
Each extended release tablet(or controlled release, sustained action, sustained release, etc) is specifically made to NOT cut.
It has a coating around the tablet to slowly release the tablet into the body, if you break this coating, it puts you in danger of recieving the entire dose right then and there.
The above poster(about saying its harmless) is clearly wrong. I don't mean to base or insult people's intelligence, but i work with healthcare professionals every day and i clearly know what im talking about.
Althought breaking it once, and nothing bad happening to you happens, doesn't mean it won't EVER happen.
It's like fire, you can burn a few matches here and there, but the 10th or 11th time can burn the bridge.
Hope i helped.
Like you said you are a pharmacist tech, and you just said that the paint (coating) is the time release mech which is WRONG. It is not, how naive are you people really? It saddens me to think someone this ignorant to pharmacology is serving us our meds. As stated OPANA uses the Timerx-N system IT DOESN'T use the "coating" as its way of delivering meds. Ask anyone who has actually tried to defeat an opana er for a couple of years and they will tell you that CRUSHING and CUTTING does ABSOLUTELY nothing. You are utterly misinformed.
Originally Posted by tjohnson92389
whether we are misinformed or not it was NOT meant to be cut. Just because it may be okay for you DOES NOT meaN it is okay for other people. If you want to risk your life, fine. Your tolerance level may be different than others too. It thinkj it is very dangerous telling people it is okay to cut an extended release tablet wehn the manufacturer says NOT to. dont risk other peoples lives just because you may want to risk your own. if anyone has any real mediucal questions, please call your pharmacist.
for all of you please read
Ok so heres exactly what you need to know. Number one, the average person that does NOT have an opiate tolerance of at least 80 mg could potentially get very sick if not have fatal results. To someone without this tolerance they would definitely have long lasting pain medicine all day. If it were broken in any way the average not opiate tolerant person would get very sick if not die. Now for the opiate tolerant youre right, this will not satisfy the reason you broke it. You dont feel it because obviously you have a very high tolerance. The problem with the opiate tolerant one is never enough so all you cowboys, be careful. Breaking time released pills is nevera good way to taper down. If youre serious tell a dr. The truth. Good luck
Originally Posted by amanda28
Opana ER tablets are very Dangerous cut in half
I have personel experience where my pharmacy screwed up and was suppose to give me opana I'm relese tablets cuts in half and ended up giving me opana er tablets cut in half by mistake! I was hospitalized twice and had loss of appetite, vomiting all the time, and Nauses all the time! The urologist also found that I was urinating blood from my bladder from this drug being cut in half! This is a very serious matter and is not to be taken lightly! Because of the mess up and all the warning labels all over there own label that says do not cut in half but the bottle clearly srated cut in half 4 times a day! I sued and got big comensation! They even admitted that I was very lucky that I didn't die! So those saying its ok to do that are crazy! I had experts testify at the trial and they all agreed that it is life threating!
Pharmacists, pharm-techs, doctors, and nurses (et cetera) have a professional responsibility to tell you not to divide a pill designed to release medication over a specific time and intended to be administered whole. There are various reasons for this, not the least of which being: that is the manner of administration that demonstrated safety and efficacy such that it could be approved for sale and human use by the FDA. This is the same reason the leaflet carries that ominous warning.
That being said, the research scientists that designed, patented and tested the specific time-release mechanism in use here (TIMERx (old) or TIMERx-N (new)) have no such responsibility. If you asked them, they would tell you that simply cutting an Opana ER or Opana ER-TRF (TRF especially) tablet in half would not substantially affect the proper functioning of the time-release. This mechanism was designed that way. It works by allowing water to slowly permeate the semi-porous gel(ling) matrix with oxymorphone embedded within (xantham and locust bean gums, if memory serves). As it does so, the water essentially 'trades places' with oxymorphone, releasing the active drug as the matrix slowly erodes. Dividing the pill, because it increases the surface area slightly (thereby decreasing the volume-to-surface area ratio), marginally increases the rate at which water can penetrate the matrix, resulting in a corresponding marginal increase in rate of release. If you were to grind the pill into a powder, increasing the surface area 100-fold, yes it could harm a non opiate-tolerant person. But dividing it once would not harm someone that can take a whole pill to begin with. To take it a step further, administering half the usual dose in a time release that is essentially unchanged would pose no danger.
To speak to my credibility here: I know all of this because I researched this mechanism (primary research, i.e. journal articles and patent applications) because my sister asked this very same question. I gave her this very same answer. To this day she cuts her Opana ER 30's in half routinely. The only effect being they actually work instead of putting her through mild withdrawal on a daily basis. Sheep that treat a warning in a leaflet as gospel (instead of the liability-dodging rhetoric it is) are, at best, uninformed. A 'real' patient that nearly OD'ed, twice mind you, whilst bleeding internally I suspect has many more problems than docket numbers.
First off the whole point of the TIMERx-N is to deliver the Opana safely at a controlled time frame, Thus being a Extended Release not an Instant Release. Yes there are many ways of getting around the coating. I have a friend who takes them and she used to shot the pills. The first few times she got really high. The last time she did it she almost died and she has a tolerance level like a bull. The last time she abused the pill by NOT FOLLOWING THE PROPER DISPENSION AND FOLLOWING THE LABELS it almost killed her. I had to rush her to the hospital she overdosed on a 20mg Opana ER. It attacked her nervous system, her motor skills were just about gone her pupils were fixed and diolated and starting slipping into a coma from the overdose. Mind you this woman has been on all kinds of C2,C3,C4, and C1( illicit) and always shot up or snorted. She wasn't a total junkie but like to take the meds HER way not the CORRECT way. She used to be prescribed 22 30 mg Oxycodones a day! 10 of those are considered a lethal dosage and could kill you depending on your tolerance level. ( I have since had the Dr. investgated and he lost his pratice and is in jail!) All medication have some kind of safeguard to help prevent an overdose. I don't mean to upset or offend anyone with what i am saying since i take 3 c2s. 3c3s, and 2 c4s, and i take HIGH quantities of all of them just and example of 2. i take 4 40mg opana er and 5 2 mg xanax per day.i have i ,very high tolerance, But ANYONE who is trying to take the coating off medication to snort or shot up are playing with fire and probably can't admit it but they have a serious addiction problem. No medication was released by the FDA with the instructions of crushing or snorting. If they did the manufacturers would just release the medication in a powder form. It would be cheaper to manufacture for the drug companys and would cost less for the patients and the insurance and we would be given the option of a script of needles to shoot our medication with. I am again don't mean to hurt, or offend anyone here. We are all here to share opinions. The people that are snapping back with nasty and rude remarks are taking what people are saying heart. I have learned that when people react like that and take offense and go on the defensive it's because it is hitting home and effecting them or making them feel like they are doing somethine wrong. Basic psychology 101 human behavior. sorry if i offend anyone but i am just expressing my right to freedom of speech. Anyone not following the proper dispensing instructions have some kind of problem. It could be so simple as wanting the medication to hit fast to kill the pain. I totally understand and i have been there and did that. Now i follow every direction to the letter and i actually feel better by taking all my medication the right way. When you abuse the medication you don't always get the actual long term effect of the pill and you have to take another sooner and before you know it your buying them off the street or friends because you ran out early. Again just giving some advise and i hope noone is hurt or offended and i apologize for it but i am just trying to put info out there for everyone to think about. My hope is this reaches someone and it helps them. good luck to everyone and i pray that noone overdoses!!!!
Good grief! I quit Subutex 3 months ago (what fun that was) and the pain dr had me on 10 mg Hydrocodone. After 90 days it STLL isn't getting through and believe me I would know if it was. He wrote me a script for Opana 10 mg today and I had to go to four pharmacies to even find it. I haven't taken one yet and after reading this I don't know if I even want to. Back in the day I always crushed ANYTHING that was time released just to feel it. I have never used a needle and do not intend to now. But after 3 months of not feeling anything from the hydrocodone, I would just like to try crushing it. Frankly, I'm afraid to even look at it now, much less take one.
If you are using the Endo brand the pill is not a standard coated time release pill, it is a water transfer matrix release that encompasses the entire pill. You can cut these with out effecting the delivery of the medication. Many tR pills are capsules with granules or have a slow to digest/desolve coating and those should not be tampered with. If you hold an Opana ER matrix pill in your mouth it will just turn to gel and you can swallow that and the mechanism will still work the same.
Originally Posted by chasereed7
What is the case number as I would love to see this!
Originally Posted by dave1972
Can you cut Opana ER By ENDO in half?
This is fine but the question was if it is ok to cut these in half and because of the delivery system it is fine as there is no powder in these pills but a gel matrix. People need to know what medication they are talking about before giving general answers that don't apply. Just because you cant do something with one med does not mean you can't do it with another. These pills were made to stop those who try to remove the opiate from the delivery system and use it in a concentrated illicit manner. Many people who take this pill for the first time freak out when they see it sitting in their stool as it does not actually digest. It works by ionic exchange between the opiate molecule and water molecules. As water moves through the matrix in your digestive system it pulls out the medication. This being the case you need to stay very hydrated as opiates cause constipation which is primarily caused by not having enough water in the digestive tract.
Originally Posted by intheshadows
Originally Posted by amanda28
So I know everyone on here is super against cutting the opana ER and yeah, it not the safest thing in the world but I just want to let you know that its okay. I've read these things for years and I have googled similar questions as well. Even though it's worrying, your friend should be okay. As long as they don't go crazy with it.
I've been breaking opana down for years. Worst decision of my life but I'm alive so....
You are correct sprockets2000, I am not an abuser, have a legal script for chronic neck/back pain, 4 surgeries. Insurance gave me no choice when they abruptly cut off my oxycontin, then 3 years later my avinza. From research & experience, cutting them does not affect anything. Also, eating immediately after taking opana er makes it work better...about 45%. Eating then taking it, or taking it on an empty stomach without eating, doesn't work as well. I don't get "high", actually none of the extended release pain medicines have ever made me "high". I know folks aren't going to believe me, also i've never posted to a forum or anything like this before. Just wanted to let you know you are right about this. The only problem is, they're hard to cut, they're like cutting a piece of a tire...rubber-like.