[intelmetal]

Business, Methadone is much harder to get off of. It is a long acting opiate that stays in your system for a long time after cessation. OC's are a very short acting opiate, and are not near as hard to come off of. Methadone withdrawl can take weeks or months to feel normal again. Short acting opiates only take a week or so, max ! Thank the good lord you are not addicted to Methadone !
Try to taper a little lower, than go cold turkey w/ the thomas recipe. It will be over quick and you can move on with your life. I know that it is easier said than done, but I have jumped off norco's and perc's and the withdrawls did not last forever like Methadone.
Just try it out, and if it does not work the 1st time taper again to a lower dose and go cold turkey again. I know you can get the job done, your in BUSINESS !
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by Businessman

If I try having nothing this weekend and then go back to 30-40mg on monday, am I likely to feel less w/d than I am now?

I can't be a mess on Monday, I have an important meeting. That may sound like a bad excuse but my job is important to me and I can't screw it up. w/d is making me really irrational.

I bought some over the counter sleeping pills and brandy. I plan to sleep through the pain this weekend.

I had a plan and I want to stick to it. I chose tapering because I know that with my job there are certain times I need to be on my game and with tapering I can control that.

If can drop to 20mg over the next week then next weekend will be my last on oxy.

Hi businessman
PLEASE hear me...I have done the taper program I know it like the back of my hand...if you don't take any pills this weekends you wont need to take 30mg you could probably get by with 20 mg 10 in the morning and 10mg at lunch...
Talk to me buddy...
Melinda

[nelly005]

Bizman,
So much of stopping the use of drugs is a brain thing and nobody goes about it the same way. Granted our bodies all react with more pain but it's our brain that shouts that we need more drugs. I'm sure all of us on here who have been able to successfully stop drugs tried several times and many different ways until we were able to quit. The key is you know and want to stop and at some point you will.
I know you've read other posts by people who say they want to stop, but you know they aren't ready yet. You are not one of those people. You've always articulated a strong desire to stop and I truely believe you will.
See what happens this weekend on your cold turkey, if you know you can't function Monday morning take the 10 mg. that Melinda suggested, then take it from there. At some point (next weekend?) you'll be ready to finish what you started. There comes a time when your brain will be sick and tired of the drugs getting the better of you. We're all hoping it's this weekend, but if not it will be soon!

Let us know how you're doing.
You're only accountable to yourself, we're just here for support....no guilt!
Beth

[Businessman1]

Well, I've managed to make it through the weekend with no Oxy.

Not sure how I managed it. It was the worst two days of my life. I feel like something is really wrong in my life but I'm not sure what it is. I guess I'm just not used to having real feelings any more. Tapering was becoming like death by a thousand cuts.

You guys weren't kidding about how bad it is! If anyone is reading this and considering taking Oxycodone for pain, please know, if you ever stop you'll have to go through something that feels like a cross between starving to death, loosing a loved one, insomnia, severe anxiety and a really bad case of flu. Oh I forgot to mention watery eyes and feeling cold in 80 degrees. So make sure it's worth it!

[Robert_325]

Businessman ... I have to give it to you. That's the best post I've seen you make so far! That's as accurate a description of opiate detox as I've seen. Opiate detox sucks pretty bad I hate to see anyone have to go through it. If only people knew before they used. Hang in there. God bless.

[melinda7.5]

Hi Businessman
I'm glad to see you made it thru the weekend ...I always say if you can make it thru opiate w/d you can do ANYTHING...
So what is the plan for tomorrow at work ...
Do you think you can make it...
you have two days behind you now...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[Businessman1]

I just got back from my meeting in Chicago. I was going to have a little Oxy today but decided against it. I'm not sure I could go through it all again!

I'm kinda enjoying feeling again. I was so afraid of feeling bad things that I forgot what good stuff feels like.

I bought a bunch of over the counter sleeping stuff which should get me through this week. You can't crave if you're asleep!

I'm now curious to see what day 4 feels like. I've read a few posts that say it's the worst but for me day 3 was way better than day 2. I'm hoping this is going to be a case of everyone being different....

[nelly005]

Hey Bizman,
I'm so glad you're doing well...and I'm sure it will only get better. Make sure you remember what worked for you so you can pass it along.
As far as those feelings go, opiates kinda turn us into liars...as long as we've got the meds in us we can, on the surface, have all the emotions we're supposed to have. We can pretend we care or are happy/sad, but are we??!!Numb is numb.

Let us know how today is going.
Beth

[Businessman1]

I've been stacked at work this week so haven't really had a chance to feel sorry for myself. I'm still off the oxy and the hydrocodone and the hydromorphone! I still have a draw full of it but that's where it' staying!

I think I'm finally coming out the other side. I'm still a bit depressed and irrational. It's hard to tell yourself that you're being irrational because of w/d. You know that's the reason but you can't help how you feel.

As for sharing what worked for me, I doubt some of you will approve but for me it was a mix of sleeping pills, flexeril and valium. The first 48 hours were the worst. I had nightmares when I was awake (I know that sounds crazy). I've always been of the view that if something is going to hurt, you're better off being asleep! I lost count of how many sleeping pills I had during the weekend but I can tell you that from Friday night until Monday morning, I was awake less than 8 hours. For those 8 hours I drank all the brandy in my apartment, had more sleeping pills and passed out again. I told you, you wouldn't approve! But that is the Businessman recipe and it works!! The downside is that all those pills made me really dizzy for a few days.

When I woke up on monday morning, my symptoms were less severe. I think w/d on day 3 is similar to a really bad hangover in some ways so I had alka seltzer and meloxicam and on Tuesday I had to drink with work so I had nothing at all. Today I have had nothing so far but will probably have some over the counter sleeping pills later if I can't sleep. My stash of valium and klonazepan, I'm going to save for flights. I do tons of long hall with work.

I'm thrilled I got through phase 1. Thanks to all of you for your advice and support. It really helped me a lot. There are some things you just can't talk to your friends about and for me opiate w/d is in that category.

[Robert_325]

You're right! I'm afraid we can't paste the "bizman recipe" up there with the Thomas Recipe. You're lucky you didn't kill yourself doing all that drinking and pill popping. It's okay since you survived but please don't recommend that process to anyone else. I wouldn't want you to have another human being's demise on your conscience. Hang in there. God bless.

[Businessman1]

No I wouldn't recommend the drinking part to anyone else. I'm a seasoned drinker and wouldn't want someone to do themselves any harm.

The sleeping pills however, I would recommend. Being asleep made the process so much easier for me. There really is no point being awake and suffering. It's not like I was going to do anything useful anyway. If given the choice between relapsing or going to sleep, I would go for sleep every time. On Sunday I couldn't stand being in my own skin and would definitely had some oxy if I had to stay awake all day.

I should also note, for some reason, I have a really high tolerance to sleeping pills and need enough to kill a donkey just for a short nap. It's not like I built up that tolerance, I'd never really been into sleeping pills before. For most people, I'm sure just one or two would be enough but everyone is different. The Thomas recipe suggests valium which I guess is for the anxiety? It really doesn't help me that much but some people love it. I guess I'm unlucky.

I hope you will feel able to suggest part of this approach (not the dangerous bit). For me it got me through the worst two days I can remember and sleeping pills are no worse than valium.

[melinda7.5]

Hi businessman

If there is anyway you can do a work out it will help you so much it puts all of your emotions back in check...
I have been clean a year now and if I stop running and doing my exercise I just don't feel right...
If I go running it keeps me in a good mood and I have more energy...
just give it a try...

Talk to you later, Melinda

[ddosher]

[QUOTE=Businessman1;242157]I've been stacked at work this week so haven't really had a chance to feel sorry for myself. I'm still off the oxy and the hydrocodone and the hydromorphone! I still have a draw full of it but that's where it' staying!

I have to tell you that if you are an addict, then keeping those things anywhere around you is a very big and bad mistake. At some point you will be bound to find an excuse (any excuse, as little as a hair out of place) and you will be right back at it. This disease does NOT back down. Even with abstinence, it continues. You could be back full throttle in no time. I implore you to take that big step and flush them down the toilet. I know from my experience that the "stinkin thinking" can creep right back in once the experience of the horrible withdrawal is a couple of weeks in the past. Take my very good advice and get rid of them. You have nothing but misery to lose and a chance at happiness to gain. Best of luck to you.

Donna

[Businessman1]

Hey Melinda, I start my physical therapy tomorrow and won't be able to exercise properly for a few more months. I was a regular gym goer before I hurt my back. I can't wait until I can run again! For now I'll have to settle for other things to make me happy.

Donna, I'm not worried about having pills in my apartment. To be clear, if I ever feel pain like I felt when I hurt my back, I wouldn't think twice about taking the strongest pain-killer I have. It was so bad that I couldn't walk or sleep in a bed. I was off work for a month and I'd never taken a sick day in my life. I never started taking pain meds for recreational purposes and don't believe that there is anything wrong with using narcotics for severe pain. Now that I understand how horrific w/d is, I'd make sure it was worth it.

When I was first prescribed vicodin, I didn't really know what they were. I'm not from the US and wasn't familiar with the brand name (hydrocodone is illegal where I'm from). My doctor gave me multiple prescriptions without any explanation of their physically addictive nature. I have since told him how irresponsible I think he was/is. I would also say it took me a good few weeks of constant use to develop a physical dependence. I'm not blameless, I did my research a week too late and I was in so much pain I didn't really care about the consequences.

I remember how much I liked the feeling the first time I tried Oxy, I now know I don't like it enough to take it again for no reason. It impacted almost every aspect of my life in a negative way; especially my relationship with my girlfriend and my job. I think the response to my first post was "you sound like a real loser" and at the time I had to agree. It's so morbid to live with no feelings and emotions. I, of all people, have no excuses to hide from life.

Tonight to make me happy, I want Robert to admit that my sleeping through w/d is an awesome idea!

[klopper22]

I pretty much slept thru mine and it IS a great way to do it if you have that option.

[Businessman1]

Hey does anyone know how long it normally takes until you can sleep properly?

Robert said it is the last thing to return to normal. Does anyone have any insight they can share?

I still can't fall asleep unaided and I keep waking up at 3am and that's it for the night. As sleep is one of my fav things to do, this is upsetting me....

I know it's only been a week but I'd like to know what I'm in for.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Businessman1

Hey does anyone know how long it normally takes until you can sleep properly?

Robert said it is the last thing to return to normal. Does anyone have any insight they can share?

I still can't fall asleep unaided and I keep waking up at 3am and that's it for the night. As sleep is one of my fav things to do, this is upsetting me....

I know it's only been a week but I'd like to know what I'm in for.

Sleep is totally unpredictable. It's hard to say when any one person's sleep will return to normal. It can easily take a few months even for someone who's used for only 2-3 years. After 35 years I could barely speak in complete sentences after three months, let alone sleep.

Seriously everyone is different. I won't even try to predict that one. It does get better though eventually if you don't use. That is for sure. God bless.

[GivingItAGo]

BusinessMan~ We are more alike than we may think my friend. In fact, I checked your thread several times a day to see updates before I chose to join in on conversation, starting my own thread kicking Methadone 9 days ago.

Like you, I had it under control for a long time and took care of life the way I was supposed to. Went to the gym, stayed happy, did what I had to... and then got high as hell from time to time as well!!

They feel good at first, but they start to suck so badly it's not even worth trying to describe to people who are just "using it to kill pain" right now. They will eventually suffer what we did, unless they get out ASAP.

Keep at it man... no Oxy for you - you don't need it. I have back problems too, I started my Physical Therapy back up last week and go in Tuesday again. I'm simply ECSTATIC that my back is hurting again because that means... I'M NO LONGER HIGH!!!!! My life is back... keep yours where it belongs, screw the drugs - let's do this.

[Businessman1]

Hey Giving it a go (good name)

I read your thread too. It's strangely comforting and disconcerting in equal quantities to read about other people going through this. I never thought I'd be posting on a thread like this.

I'm now dealing with life without my crutch, trying to repair some of the damage I did before I stopped and the damage I did while stopping.

I was reading your post about you crying. I've been a mess at work the last few weeks, I'm so emotional I'm a danger to myself. I have to stop myself responding to any work problem before I call my brother to check that I'm not being irrational. You can't exactly tell people at work that you're going through opiate detox. I hadn't cried since I was a little kid but I did break down a few times when detoxing. I realized that I hadn't felt any real feelings for 9 months so when it all comes back at once it is overwhelming.

I don't feel like the same person I was before I started. I still can't sleep or eat. I have to force food down because I'm never hungry.

Some days I'm happy to have feelings again but if I'm being honest I miss feeling nothing most days. I can't imagine what it's like for people who have real problems.

I went to see my surgeon today and he gave me a script for Ambien again - always more pills. Personally, I'd prefer to drink brandy to get me to sleep.

The thing that stops me going back is that I don't think I could go through this twice.

I'm glad things are going well for you. You sound like you're having a good day. I started physical therapy too. It's great - you get a 6-year-old in shorts telling you how to sit up straight!

[nelly005]

Hi Bizman and Givingitago,

You'll be noticing every 3-4 days you'll notice improvements with all areas of your life...too bad the steps are small but they are enough to let you know you're doing the right thing.
I could barely sleep or eat for the first 2+ weeks after I quit the norco and methadone. Now after 2 1/2 months I'm getting 6+ hours of sleep (enough for me) and eating is normal again...my problem was at first I was too lazy to cook or prepare food and if my husband made something I couldn't sit in the chair to eat, I was so uncomfortable. All I wanted to do was lay down on that comfy sofa!!
It all will get better... slowly. But you will start noticing improvements soon!
And yes, I was a total b!tch too! It goes away.
If someone backs you into a corner about your actions at work...or the bar, tell them your Dr. put you on a new NSAID thats making you feel wierd....works like a charm.

Beth

[Businessman1]

Hey Beth

What's an NSAID? I've not heard that term before.

I'm the same about the cooking. I cooked every day and now I eat sandwiches for dinner. MY GF thinks it's an awesome diet. I lost like 4 inches off my waste in the last month. I just want to lie on the couch and find ways to make me fall asleep.

BTW, I started watching The Cleaner on A&E on demand at the weekend. You should check it out. It's about an ex addict who has a team of ex-addicts that help people get straight. I watched 10 episodes straight at the weekend.

[Robert_325]

NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) are medications like ibuprofen, naproxen, celebrex, aleve, etc.

[Businessman1]

Thanks. I might find it hard to convince anyone that I went crazy due to a bad batch of advil...

I'll just have to settle for for plain old crazy.

[nelly005]

I'll check out the Cleaner. My 16 yr. old got me addicted to House...House wrote out a Rx for himself on another Dr.s Rx pad for Vicodin 5/500 and he pops them like tic tacs, they have stupid writers?! An addict like House would not be taking a mere 5mg. or taking that much ibuprofen! I still love the show though.

My Dr.s have given me several Rx's for NSAID, meloxicam, celebrex and a few others can give "strange" side effects. At least it would be a good excuse if you have to have one, and can be given days after any incident.....

You need to train your girl friend better, she should be making you dinner every night. haha Don't repeat that! For days I had those pre-made frozen pbj's for lunch or cold cereal...sugary type. Then I started with the healthy stuff...much better.
Beth

[Businessman1]

I love house too.

I had the exact same conversation a few weeks ago about how House manages to take so many vics without liver damage and how he would definitely have moved himself onto pure Oxy by now.

There was an episode where he moved onto methadone but it stopped his ability to diagnose so he went back to the vics.

Also, his detox's only ever last one day.

[GivingItAGo]

BusinessMan~ Do you have a way of me contacting you a bit more privately? Perhaps create a "toss-away" email account on yahoo.com or something?

With ya bro... I have read every step of the way and I relate to you very much so and would enjoy a bit of email back and fourth.

[xTerm]

House manages to take so many vics without liver damage and how he would definitely have moved himself onto pure Oxy by now.

I am going to ask my doctor to switch me to vicoprofen during my refill visit tomorrow morning... geez why cant they just give me straight hydro :P lol
A couple of years ago, i was able to get 15/200 hydros from a doctor and pharmacy in Florida but the DEA shut them down.

[Businessman1]

Hey Giving it a go

You can email me at drugsdotcom@live.com and I'll send you my real email address.

Hey xTerm I'm not sure ibuprofen is much better for you than all that Tylenol. One of the guys I work with got ulcers and collapsed due to internal bleeding from too much advil. My mom was told not to take it any more for the same reason. Why wouldn't you just ask for a different opiate? The other thing with ibuprofen is that you are meant to eat with it - which I found made the hydro less effective.

Germany is the only country I have heard of that allows hydrocodone on it's own. I was never sure why it's the only one that needs to be mixed...

[xTerm]

Yea, i know Ibu's cause major gastro and possibly heart problems but damn my poor liver and kidneys need a break.
I've taken straight ten mg oxycodone before, it works a lot better for pain but it makes me sleepy as opposed to hydro having the opposite effect, so I really didnt like them that much.
After thinking about it though, i probably wont ask for anything else because on my normal visits i just see a PA, she walks in with scripts in hand, asks a few questions and shoves me out the door.
Any changes have to be approved by the doc his self and from what ive heard about this doc, anytime that you ask for a change, he makes negative changes like reducing strength, dosage amount etc..
I like to stay as low under the "radar" as possible lol..
glad youre doing good bizman..

[GivingItAGo]

BusinessManSaid:

"It's so morbid to live with no feelings and emotions. I, of all people, have no excuses to hide from life. "


So true. You end up with zero emotions or desires eventually. Just a matter of time. Well put. I'm almost two weeks out from MDone and I am even embracing the awful feelings I get from w\ds... we're getting our lives back. We are feeling emotions, some happy, some sad... this is what being human is all about. If we feel nothing we may as well be dead in my opinion