[BrandonSS90]

I am thinking about talking to my doctor about starting Avinza, or Kadian, or something extended-release.

Currently I take 6 Vicodin everyday for chronic pain. Each dose at 10/500 MG x2 tablets, every 6 hours. I have built up a very moderate tolerance to hydrocodone over about 5 or 6 years...

I am honestly kind of tired of taking pills every 6 hours, and as I am a "clock watcher" also.. I HATE that feeling. I want something that will last at LEAST half a day (12 hours at least), and take the Vicodin as needed rarely.

The problem is.. is that I don't know what to expect if I try morphine-sulfate?

I can't be a zombie either all day, as my disease already makes me fatigued everyday. It's a kind of a hard spot for me... I want something effective, but I don't want to be sedated.. ya know? I want to be able to live, go outside at least, and help out around the house still, without sleeping hours a day.

[Cats Meow]

Since you're opioid tolerant MS shouldn't make you loopy, you may not even feel the bump up anyway. Avinza is probably the better CR then Kadian or Oramorph. After 5 years tolerance is expected, it shouldn't be too hard of a sell to your doctor, but many don't like to Rx CII's, you could be referred to pain mgmt.

I suspect you'll still watch the clock, waiting for the 12 hour mark.

[Robert_325]

Brandon .....Getting referred to pain management was going to be my reply just as Cats said. When you switch to class II narcotics most regular drs run. DEA is tracking these meds so closely. They watch for these scripts being abused big time even though you're not abusing them.

It's not the drs that don't want to help you, but they won't put themselves at risk to be able to work by having the feds on their back. That's a guarantee. Pain management drs handle this sort of thing usually as that is their specialty.

Don't freak out if your dr sends you to pain management. It's likely going to be part of your treatment would be my guess. It's not bad, it's just the system.

Let us know if we can help. Good luck and God bless.

[Robert_325]

Brandon .... I just read your other post describing several of your chronic health conditions. Hey dude .... it would probably be best for you in the long run to be with a pain management dr. I'm serious. Sounds like you need some help and you won't get it most likely with a GP. Just something for you to think about. God bless.

[BrandonSS90]

Well, I have been to, 2 pain managment facilities.

The first one, I of course had to sign my first contract, that I wouldn't do anything else, etc etc.

Well, nothing was working, because they were not willing to prescribe narcotics to a former abuser of Vicodin.. and they didn't understand WHY I abused the Vicodin like I did. I took more and more because they weren't helping. Well, they prescribing the horrible drug, Tramadol. I hated it, but it killed the pain. One day, it started to not work.. so I tried to commit suicide by taking 5 25 MG Tramadols, and a Zoloft pill. I was rushed to the hospital. Had to drink activated charcoal.. one thing I will never drink again..lol.

The SECOND one I was reffered to, was rediculous. The first appoitment with my first visit to that doctor. The first words out of his mouth were, "Hi Brandon. So I understand you abused Vicodin, right? Well, since you have done that I will say this now, I will not prescribe narcotics to you, period. No doubts or buts."

I started crying, and I wanted to leave. And he left the room. So the doctor did want to follow up with me he said to see what other options there were. Well, come to find out at the next appoitment, they wanted me to lay on a table to get some sort of steroid injection. Got on the table, they put my x-rays of my spine and why I was having pain, on the xray light. They said, "Well, there is nothing we can do here. Sorry." They said it's because of my anatomy and how my bones are and stuff that they didn't want to take any "risks" they said. My MOM started crying, and said.. "Theres NOTHING you can do.. nothing.."

As far as I know, no PM facilities will accept me my doctor says. So my doctor made my mom sign a waiver, to put me back on Vicodin, saying that if I kill myself, the doctor or the doctor office is not responsibe. And have been on Vicodin ever since... my doctor basically waived everything and just put me back on the Vicodin. He told us that he didn't want me to be in pain. Went immediatly on Vicodin again.. and still am. But, it is losing it's effectiveness, as I have been on it 5 years plus... increasing and increasing dose over the years of course.

So, I think my only option now, if my doctor is not willing to prescribe schedule II narcotics, I will have to go to another doctor then. And this doctor IS a pediatrician, I am still seeing a pediatrician doctor...

So...

[Robert_325]

I understand your situation. For what it's worth I'm glad you're not on the tramadol though. You would have ended up at a dose eventually causing seizures.

Keep us posted how your next appointment goes. Good luck buddy. God bless.

[BrandonSS90]

So.. if I get a "control 2 substance"... and my parents say, "You don't need to Be on MORPHINE." or if the doc prescribes a oxycotton like drug, they'll say, "HE is NOT taking that.. no.."

Even though I am 19, and AM an adult, what if they say no to the doctor and the doctor prescribes them anyways, and they REFUSE to give me my medication when I need it? Like they sometimes do.

They'll say, "You don't need your Vicodin... your not in that much pain, or you wouldn't be on the computer or doing anything..."

What if a scenario happens like this? And it has before.

One incident, I had a dentist appt... to get checked out and cleaned, and I told them I had pain in my molars, so bad I couldn't sleep sometimes. They said, "Well.. we will give you some Tylenol #3, and see if that helps. OK?" I said.. "Ok, that sounds fine." Well, my parent was out in the waiting room at the time, and I came out with a prescription, my parent took it from me, and while the doctors were wheeling me out in my wheelchair, my mom looked at them and said, "NO, he is NOT taking this.. all he wants to do is get HIGH.."

But was not an adult, was around 16..

It's pretty ********py.

[Robert_325]

Brandon .... I read a major list of physical problems, some more serious than others, that you deal with daily.

Let me tell you buddy, you're parents love you and are trying to look out for you. But it's against the law for a dr to tell your parents what you're taking without your permission. That's all I can say. Tell them to butt out is all I know to say.

You've got some serious problems. But try to understand that the family is TRYING, even if they're wrong, to help you. I can't tell you how to handle your family without causing everyone to be pissed at each other. You've got to handle that one. God bless.

[Cats Meow]

I think you have some issues that more pain meds aren't going to help with, you're 19, how long do you plan on being on pain meds? All your life? From what you've written they can't find anything seriously wrong with you, I'm not saying all you want to do is get high, but I'm sure you probably do like how they make you feel, most people do, it's not a crime.
Why don't you try and get off these for awhile instead of looking for a bump? Narcotics have a phenomena of causing more pain, and it's not exactly pseudo-pain, they lower our threshold to pain, plus there's the dependency thing that's an aggravation in pain in itself. Do your 19 year old self a favor and get off pain meds, at least for 6 months and reassess your true pain levels, it takes that long to assess, you can always go back on them if the pain doesn't subside, and you'll find Vicodin more then effective enough. People are always surprised how much better off they are, time has a way of healing back problems and you can't tell this while you're taking medication, even though you're an adult your body isn't fully mature yet, what ever problem you had you may grow out of, and backs do get better. I know mine did.

Robert's going to jump in here and agree with me, you watch.

Cats

[Robert_325]

Cats is right that our minds can create pain. It's real pain, it's just that once we are off drugs and not in addiction (which is very painful in itself) our pain level usually lessens.

I was just previously pointing out that your parents don't call the shots anymore unless you live at home and are on their insurance. Even then you're legally an adult for medical purposes. But by getting clean, then reassessing your pain while clean like Cats said, you would likely find that you're not in near as much pain as before.

I was taking thirty 30mg roxies and 30 lorcets a day, but was still in pain. Today I take 800mg Ibuprofen even with all the knee problems, RA, all that garbage. The goofy dr offered me tramadol today, would have given me percs if I would have taken them, (I literally turned them down) but I would rather deal with some pain than to drool. Think about it. God bless.

[BrandonSS90]

Originally Posted by Cats Meow

I think you have some issues that more pain meds aren't going to help with, you're 19, how long do you plan on being on pain meds? All your life? From what you've written they can't find anything seriously wrong with you, I'm not saying all you want to do is get high, but I'm sure you probably do like how they make you feel, most people do, it's not a crime.
Why don't you try and get off these for awhile instead of looking for a bump? Narcotics have a phenomena of causing more pain, and it's not exactly pseudo-pain, they lower our threshold to pain, plus there's the dependency thing that's an aggravation in pain in itself. Do your 19 year old self a favor and get off pain meds, at least for 6 months and reassess your true pain levels, it takes that long to assess, you can always go back on them if the pain doesn't subside, and you'll find Vicodin more then effective enough. People are always surprised how much better off they are, time has a way of healing back problems and you can't tell this while you're taking medication, even though you're an adult your body isn't fully mature yet, what ever problem you had you may grow out of, and backs do get better. I know mine did.

Robert's going to jump in here and agree with me, you watch.

Cats

Cats Meow, I want to say that I really appreciate your input. I really do.

And you know, I have thought about it MANY many times, as I watch that clock for the next pills, waiting for my pain to go away. But the problem is.. is that I do have real legitimate pain issues, and I'm not saying you don't understand that, at all. You are also right, that I do like how they make me feel, you are absolutely right.

But at this point, my doctor, and I, really do not want me in pain, since I do have chronic pain of a born illness of Muscular Dystrophy (FSH [type]), severe scoliosis, and a spinal fusion that after the surgery 4 or 5 years later turned out unsuccesfull...

What my doctor has a philosophy is, is that he does not want me in pain. He actually made my mom sign a contract, that if I kill myself with the pills he gives me, that he NOR his office is responsible. She signed it.

What he basically told my mom, is that he wants me to have a good quality of life. And that to give him the quality of life he wants. He and I were also considering Palliative care recently, because of his caring, philosophy of life. He told me that he thinks it is a good idea, and that I should pursue it, to keep me living the best life possible.

He reffered Palliative care to the facility here in town, they came out, and the first words out of the nurse's mouth was, "You know.. you don't look like you are their yet..." I started tearing up. The fact she said, "You don't *LOOK* like you are there yet.." That really got me down. Because I am and currently ready.. to just live, I now have a trachestomy (permanent), because of the anti-depressant, Abilify, had an allergic reaction to it... that's where all the extra pain, actual muscle pain, aches, sharp pain from the xray showing that my rib cage is actually resting on my pelvis. Actually sitting on it, causing sometimes severe sharp, rubbing pain. Hard to explain the pain I feel. Some days are better than others. The past year my leg had started to hurt, because of me sitting in a wheelchair all day (which I cannot get out of and even stand for more than 5 minutes), only to take a pee in a urinal, and that's it.

I am still seeking pain management, but because of my past of Vicodin abuse, and breaking a contract by overdosing on Tramadol a pain clinic has given me, because it wasn't helping anymore, and I was tired of being in pain. They terminated the treatment, sent me to another pain clinic out of grace (thank god), and they said, "Nothing we can do. I will not prescribe narcotics. We tried to do an epidural/steroid injection, but the way your spine is layed out, we don't want to risk it."

So basically I am still also seeking palliative care, but they seem to think I am not there yet.

So basically... I am looking for quality of life.

[Cats Meow]

Brandon, I didn't know you had all those problems, I didn't know your Hx when I posted, so I understand a little better where you're at now, however since your health is this critical I don't see why you're under medicated (suicidal OD apart), nor do I understand your parents viewpoint, basically I'm at a loss for an answer (which is rare for me). At some point they have to put that aside, maybe a shrinks consult with your Pediatrician or pain mgmt specialist is the ticket you need, I think that's the direction I would have to go in if it were me in your shoes.
Don't rule out my other advise though, it can work/help more then you can comprehend, because it's contrary to logic and hard to imagine when you're in so much pain.
If you do get the chance for a med bump, show your maturity and responsibility and take it as directed, not one pill more, this goes a long way for credibility on your part, your doctor needs to feel he's able to trust you, and he/she's not making a wrong or fatal choice.
Good luck
Cats

[BrandonSS90]

Sometimes it feels like it's a struggle.

You want pain relief, but you don't want to be sedated. And losing concioussness while your eating.

I had a pain episode in the hospital, like I do at home all the time but don't have "rescue meds" for bad pain, just anxiety (Ativan), rescue meds.

I was very bad, I was crying, for like a half hour before I called the nurse, because I didn't want them to think something bad... like I was drug seeking or something.

Well, she ran and got some Dilaudid (first time), 2 MG I believe, IV. About 2 minutes later, I decided to order food because I got hungry, while eating my food I kept kinda stuping over my food falling asleep... I did not like that part, but I thought, ahhh pain relief.. because it was a 9 on the scale.. but, the effects soon wore off, and I was good for a day or two..

But, then again, you dont' want to be in pain, and/or be sedated. Ya know?

Because of my disease I am tired all the time to begin with.. and it just makes life more "stupid" I call it.. so the doctor had to put me on Budeprion XL (generic Wellbutrin), 300 MG a day. I read that is similiar to a synthetic "kind" of stimulant. But that helped with energy tons..

[Cats Meow]

That happens sometimes when you get a med bump, it'll take a few days to stabilize at your new dose. Getting an IV injection of Dilaudid isn't a good comparison to switching to a CR, but if you do find yourself becoming too tranquil at first - a small stimulant such as a cup of tea or an energy drink should off-set it. An MS CR sounds like a good choice for you to consider. It's funny, for some people narcotics sedate them, for others they jack them up, it also depends on the drug, Oxy is especially known for amping people up, it just depends on the individual.