Thor283The generic Subutex that is. I just read a question by a person who uses Suboxone mainly for the energy boost. And many of you here have been honest enough to admit you also got an energy boost from Sub. And quite honestly when I was on the NB Subutex from 2005 - 2009 I always got an energy boost from Subutex too. Then I was taken off Sub and put on short acting opiates for a year and then I came back to Subutex. I then started with these generics. I was driven off 2 other boards for complaining that these generic Subutex don't give an energy boost. The people on those boards weren't as honest as you all are. They actually seemed afraid to admit they got an energy boost from Sub. I wasn't saying I only wanted it for the energy boost. But if that's 1 of the side effects that properly made Buprenorphine does, then I want it.
Now I'm going to be completely honest. NB Subutex used to give me an energy boost, help greatly with my depression, kept away most of my excessive anxiety, and I never ever wanted any other drug, not even a beer or a glass of wine. I didn't want to take anything that might effect how beautifully I felt with NB Subutex, and all I took was 5 mg a day. Now with the generics, I need Provigil almost daily to have energy. I take Wellbutrin again or I become depressed, and Wellbutrin also gives me some energy. I seem to need a Benzo 4 or 5 times a week for anxiety, which I don't have. So I live in a constant state of anxiety. Last but not least, I drink a few beers several times most weeks. I do that mostly for the anxiety, but it doesn't work because Sub blocks alcohol. So I ask myself, what good are these generic Subutex actually doing? And my answer is, I don't know. They keep me out of wds.
And now they have stopped making NB Subutex. At least we think so. For the past 5 months I've been trying to figure out a way to get back on NB Subutex and now it isn't going to exist anymore? My doc doesn't know.
Btw, I don't take Suboxone because when I first went on Sub it was Suboxone and my feet, then ankles, and lower legs swelled like balloons and the docs didn't know what to do. So I'm afraid to take Suboxone again.
I'm just very frustrated.
midnightc...
Larsy1966
Thor283
Larsy1966
lady from...
pup6767
lady from T.O.
pup6767
midnite, I know you are new here, but please don't judge Thor. He has been a great member of our support team for nearly a year. If you go back and read his post, you will see he hides nothing, he adds info that might be needed later. Since I do know him, I will say he actually is trying to help out another person with this answer. They mentioned energy from subs. I certainly am not trying to be rude at all and I hope you don't take it that way. welcome to our site. It is a support group for those asking questions about subone, subutex, butrans, opiate dependency, opiate withdrawal, etc. Although am pretty sure you meant to be helpful, most who send questions hewill not understand the excerpts, that's why we answer in everyday language. Thor is really very intelligent, he will understand the excerpts, but assure you, most won't. Just wanted to clarify what we do here, we don't judg and we do try to be supportive and helpful. I apologize if I have offended u in anyway. Gotta stick up for my friend Thor, a caring smart gentleman. Pattishan61
Thank you for your comment. No offence taken at all, But I must say it was his words that brought the observation. That's all. I have no interest in hurting anyone and seek only truth for and from people. If they choose to hide things then how can anyone help?
Trying to defend or protect someone because they are a "friend" is a big mistake for any of us to make. We must rely on what THEY say, not what we think we know of them. He is capable of saying what you did so please let HIM do so,if it matters to him at all, not you speaking for him.
These forums are not about "friends". They are about helping people, only. Anything else belongs on other forums.
Welcome cowboy
hope you'll keep coming back-we have a fabulous group of folks here who are knowledgeable and, like Patti said, not judgmental. I understand when you're new here you'll soon learn to know many, of not most, speak from care, experience and understanding. I know what Thor has gone through on other sites and how this forum is so refreshing that we can say anything and not get 'called up' on it-and the same goes for you with your observation. It is good for you you said what was on your mind. As you can see from the responses thus far, we do allow for opinions as long as a person is not being malevolent.
keep coming back cowboy
and hello to you, Patti and Thor "master'!
r
Thanks for not being angry. Thor has had some be not so nice to him on other forums, and at first when he came here, he thought I was some evil tormentor who was following him and trying to harrqss him. This is the only forum I am on and of course we got it sorted out. I just know a bit more about his situation since he has been here a while. He normally sends very detailed posts and know quite a bit about how subs works in the brain. We have had a small explosion of subs questions this holiday weekend and maybe I was just a bit tired from trying to field so many of them. People on methadone who obtained subs from... ahem... unlicensed freelance pharmaceutical supply people, thinking they could just start it no problem. People jumping off and wondering why they were in withdrawal 6 days later. It literally has been a madhouse. If I didn't know better, I would swear it was a full moon.
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And I do have a very sick room mate who is older, mentally and physically, and sick with a number of conditions, and at 4 o'clock central time, they tell me he has to have a colostomy. I am a bit freaked put to say the least. Anyway, thank younger not being mad, I swear, I am pretty nice as are all the others. You'll like it here and we do need help, so welcome to the site. Patti
Hello again you two,
There is no place for anger at anyone who seeks help. If anyone wants to do that then they should go to Facebook etc. Not for me at all, it's a big part of why we are all depressed really isn't it? Unnecessary anger and provocation just for the hell of it. I don't accept that from anyone these days but I do not do it to others, well on FB I do, but not on these sites.
Could I ask that you desist with the "you're new" comments as I find them terribly defensive and annoying. I am not new to this site at all, just haven't used it much. And I am certainly not new to depression and meds forums. Been writing on them since 2000 so, give the "newbie" speeches a miss hey? We'll get on much better if you just accept people as they are without trying to get them into some sort of clique. That style does anger me as it is harmful and I will not be a part of it.
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I don't come to make friends, I come to help, only. If I write things you like, say so. If I don't, say so. That's what matters, what a poster is asking for and the replies they get.
cowboy:
you have nothing to be concerned about.
Hi all! Welcome to new and hello to old posters and readers! THOR. I want to share my experience while on suboxone, with you... having been on it since 2005 and having jumped off at 1mg just 76 days ago. I have not had experience with subutex, so you can take my post or leave it... no problemo. I DID get an energy boost from suboxone. At first, I didn't notice it, I mean, back when I finally got off pain meds and on sub, I was so grateful to feel "normal" on the sub..but after I maintained, and when I tapered lower, I did notice my energy level decrease..I was also told by my sub dr that opiates, in one form or another, were used as antidepressants, before we had the current anti d's we have now. Makes sense to me..I know when I jumped off sub I was depressed..(altho I am sure the w/ds had something to do with it) :) now I am talking pure experience..not professional PHD info here..just info from one sub patient to another.
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If your generic is not working for you, personally, I would speak to my dr and ask to switch? Maybe TRY suboxone again if you can. It's all about YOUR well being, my friend, and we'll support you anyway we can. I hope my experience helps you..or makes you smile ::)
hugs to all!!!
runnermom
Indeed you are right Runner Mom,
Opiates were used as anti depressants until the 1950's. They were replaced by anti depessants for one very obvious reason.
Opiates are addictive and could cause more problems than the depression. So, no they are not used as such today. They are for chronic pain and yes, relieving chronuic pain can help relieve the depression at least somewhat. But the issue of addiction still persists and one must be careful when using such meds. I use Tramal for chronic pain and it is a very mild opiate but very helpful, but not for my depression at the current level.
I raise this issue with my shrink every now again, saying that they do have drugs they could give us that would make us feel good, real happy pills, but they won't due to addiction and society's attitude to those drugs.
Sucks.
Hey Mid,
I am very offended by you. Nothing you said is correct in how it relates to me.
Everyone was very nice to you. Lucky you. Learn to listen, and not to speak. And then in 10 or 20 years If I'm still on this planet, come and listen to me. And then you will start to really learn.
Hi RM,
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Good to see you again. You do understand it's the Buprenorphine in Suboxone that gave you the energy boost and improved you mood, right. It was. And there is no good reason for why the generics shouldn't do this also, especially since the pharmacists and the doctors have been so indoctrinated to believe generics are exactly the same as the name brands. They really aren't, and I'm having this problem with various drugs, including some for the heart. It's a really big problem when one month my pharmacy hands me a different generic of Cozaar (Blood Pressure med) and suddenly my pressure jumps up, and then we had to add another drug to the regime, and double the dose of yet another. But then 4 months later the generic brand is changed again, and now my BP is dropping so low that I feel faint. The doc's answer is live with it, and the pharmacist is saying it's my imagination. So Dr. Thor takes out his shingle, and starts to practice medicine on myself again, until I get my BP under control. This is a travesty of something, my friends. When docs and pharmacists are so brainwashed to believe all generics are equal, and all generics equal the name brands, and more and more patients are discovering this is not true. But that's why we pay the FDA to make sure it is true. And it isn't true. And with Bupe they may get away with blowing it off, but with drugs for the heart. The FDA should not look the other way with heart meds. So what now, we need a new government agency to watch the FDA??? LOL I laugh but it isn't funny. It actually short circuits my brain, as I'm not as young as I once was.
My other point, which I have explained in great detail else where is that unlike every other opiate, Bupe is not helping depression by stimulating the mu. It's doing it by shutting down the Kappa. And one thing Patti explains better than me is Bupe is not an up regulating opiate. So again using Bupe for depression is unlike using any of the other opiates. The problem with using Bupe for depression is mostly political, not medical. Before Bupe was mixed with Naloxone and classified as, for addiction only, Bupe had a good name. Now it's a drug meant for addicts, we are still seen as the low life of society. So society says how can a drug meant to help the lowly addict also help the CEO or Bank President, or a Senator with depression. Society says no, this can't be.
And this is 1 of my pet peeves. I'll stop for now. Today is not one of my better days. I have too many personal issues going on. So forgive my ranting.
Hey Thor! Rant away..I will always listen :)
Until our President has an addiction problem the drugs used to treat us will give us a bad name..and an attitude from others that have never been down the path we have. I hear ya! I am the Nanny responsible for caring for the children of important members of society, I am a Mom, a Marathon runner, and an Army wife... not a lowlife addcit, but you should see the looksand attitudes I have gotten when fillng my RX for subs! I def hear ya Thor!
And as for generics..I agree on that too..I take ambien prn for insomnia and when the Army pharmacy substitues with a generic in the formulary,I can tell! By all means , I agree with you there too!
Glad you are having a good day my friend! I was wondering how you were doing.
Thanks for posting!
HUGS
runnermom
Dear Thor,
Offended? What I did was gather together quotes from reputable drug sites describing this drug. So none of it was MY opinion at all, just that of expert sites who assess and summarise ALL drugs, not just one.
If you are offended, argue with them. Look it up yourself
A very sad and "cliquey" response indeed. If you are such an expert on this, why are YOU asking for help on knowing about it? Makes no sense at all mate.
You are reacting like a brat used to being able to say what he wants without fear of a rebuke. Sorry, that's unacceptable behaviour. In 10 ir 20 years you won't have the expertise I already have Thor. Or the ability to contain one's temper tantrums.
We must remember to
TAKE WHAT WE NEED AND LEAVE THE REST
I am not going to go further into detail, for anyone, as I am sure this 'saying' is self explanatory.
Good for you Lady from TO. This too is self explanatory.
midnightcowboy, you should heed the ladys advice. I use it daily. Live by it. Its my motto. So should you. It might help. Then again, it differs, from one to another. Welcome to the site. I've not had the pleasure, of introducing myself. My name is pledge. You are a new here? I've not seen your threads or posts. We are and come from all walks of life. Our diagnosis varies, but find common ground, through helping each other, as well as people seeking advice, opinions, help.
thor i agree with you ijust started the subutex 2 days ago but rite before i did i took a quarter of namebrand suboxone and felt wonderful with a headache but alive again, but since ive been taking the generic tex54411 i feel bad depressed,spacey no energy.i thght getting off opiates i would feel better but now i feel worse and have to work tom,not good cant even get out of bed or think clearly.
Pledge,
If one took her advice no one would ever respond to anyone, on anything. Ergo, no forum. Good advice, not.
Your motto, good for you too. My motto? Don't take bullshit from anyone and don't accept lies and misinformation. There's way too much compliance and not enough questioning and challenging in our lives as it is. Don't live like the "normals" expect. Live as we are.
No I'm not new here at all. Just not very active. Here since June 2009.
We have common ground else we wouldn't be here. It's called depression, thus we don't need to stand on ceremony and explain how it feels as we know everyone else knows what it is like. Thus we must be able to be honest, open and upfront with each other without the degree of "cliques" I have experienced in the last week.
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People speaking on behalf of others when that is impossible. People who are offended by facts. Only a few so far seem to understand how these places should work and it's not to gather friends and gang up on others. That's schoolyard stuff for immature people who don't know much about life.
Not at all MidnightCowboy. I Take what I need and I leave the rest. Just as you do. Your being here, on this particular thread, is giving you whatever it might be. Your compliance regarding don't take bullshit from anyone serves you. Its not taking, and by not taking bullshit, you certainly are taking something, you're not taking bullshit. As to cliques, and questions and answers. thats why we have debates, therioies, (pardon my spelling english is not my primary language) but I digress, what you find not usefull and yes I said you, well fine. Its not in yourpoint of view, whatever it might be, not valid. So what? If I see the light as a green one, and you see it as red, no amount of huffing and puffing is going to change, that fact. What you deem , trival I might see as a major item. Another example you said you've not new. Well, yes you are to me.
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If you've haven't posted and I've never read anything by you, you've pposted what six , seven times, that relatively new. I'm a new person in your world. I've been here a long but new to you. Its all how you think and take things as you believe , and see not what I or this that or the other deems.
Dear Pledge,
So you've been here a long time. Really, that tells me you haven't expanded your horizons mate. I move around for that very purpose, to learn more and meet more people who all have something to offer.
If you see the wrong colour light I would try to help you. Not just accept you will run a red light and kill either yourself or others. But you're saying your sight is valid even though it's dangerous. Wrong. We live in a society where what is said is taken in by others and it is NOT a matter of agreeing or disagreeing in most cases. It is a matter of knowledge versus ignorance.
To tell someone their depression should likely be gone soon is a false hope and not something anyone here can predict for another.
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Yet you say let that statement go unchallenged and let the poster believe that by doing nothing she too will "cycle out of depression". Many do just that, don't seek treatment and hope it will go away. Most common result is suicide. I won't stand by and watch such stuff be told to others but you apparently think it's fine. Good for you. You'd be one of those people who steps over someone passed out on the pavement too. Or turns your TV up when you hear screams outside wouldn't you? Just my opinion mate.
A wise man turns the tide with one word, but the fool just chatters on.
Thor,
Cliches are just that. If you want silence in a forum then there is no forum.
That wasn't a cliche.
It's obvious at this point that you have grudges against certain people here. I don't think I was one of them, but you ruined what this question was about with your anger, so you have turned me against you too. This was a very serious question and only angel picked up on it. Everyone else is trying to help you. But now, many days after you showed up, it's obvious you are an ex-member of this board who probably left due to his feelings being hurt. You may have been banned but in that case you would need a new PC, and a new Internet connection to get past the ban. That may be in accurate, but I know if a web site bans you it is not easy to get in again. So you probably left and came back with all this rage, that you want to start trouble every where you can, and in every way you can.
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So far you have been lucky that the moderators haven't done anything about you. I wonder what will happen first. Will the moderators put an end to you, or will you get bored and leave. Whatever happens, I'm sure you will eventually find a way to come back and spew forth your venom.
You need some serious help.
Be Well.
Thor,
Do read back on this thread and you'll find your first comment to me was "You offend me". yet I had only quoted reputable sites on the med you say you are expert on.
So, no I haven't carried grudges. You have. and it's way past time you stopped.
I had a thread called KNOWING. You and your "friends" used it to bash me. I asked for the thread to be removed as your crowd had hijacked it and used it for hate speech. Any memory problems? I hope not as this will be crystal clear to you.
Eventually I added a note in caps stating what your lot were doing and that you should all be banned etc. That thread was removed and none of you has attacked me since. I do not know what was done but the result is excellent. I currently don't have to deal with extraneous and irrelevant issues and can just help properly.
I repeat I don't carry grudges and am happy to help any of you involved if you feel a need. Now that it appears to have ceased.
Hey, MidCow!
I know you don't give a rat's a$$, however, I see it being your 'tone' in your posts which are VERY off putting. The problem there is your message is lost as many don't want to read what you have to say because of this. This is, whether you want to admit, accept or agree, a social/help forum. Yes, we all come here for help. We also interact with one another for help through some difficult times on our Suboxone Treatment journey.
As for the 'friends' you so vehemently dislike, we 'friend' one another, so we can speak or ask private questions and answers.
No one is asking you to like this. When you put the rest of us down, for using this forum in the manner we have all found helpful is when I think a foot needs to be put down.
And I am putting my foot down now-to you.
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It would be very much appreciated if you kept your judgments and negativity towards how this forum works to yourself. Of course, if you can do so in a manner which is respectful of others, please come, share and get as much as you can. There is so much offered here.
I said it before and I'll say it again in reference to what I just wrote:
"take what you need and leave the rest".
I'm so scared most of the time to even reply here.
Hi Larsy - not sure if I got your name right (I can't see it once I am making a comment). You don't need to be afraid to post here on drugs.com. Please don't take the above comments to heart - they don't concern you, and you don't need to fear anything. It's very few people that post like midnightcowboy does, and it's clear that he has some issues. All this nonsense going back and forth is because of his attitude, and not directed to you. Please give us a chance here - there are a lot of really good people here that care - a lot! Don't let your experience here on this question keep you from commenting on other questions. I welcome you here and hope to hear from you again! Take care - ElizaJane