Being a person who takes on average 300mg of percocets per day (30 pills at 10mg a piece-and have on some days taken up to 60 pills per day-600mg of percocet/oxycodone) and who is starting suboxone tomorrow-ANYONE WHO IS IN THE SAME SITUATION.HAS HAD THE SAME SITUATION AS ME, can advise the best time for me to start my first dose of suboxone. I already have my suboxone prescription filled. I have 90 tablets at 8mg per piece, the doctor wrote for 3times per day but also CLEARLY TOLD ME for my first dose/first day or even the first few days I may need to and am allowed to take 4 pills. He said when I start to take one pill, wait 20 minutes, if I don't feel better, take another, wait 20 more minutes, take a third if needed and so on up to a fourth IF NEEDED to feel better. My main question (since I just wrote about 10 paragraphs and they accidentally got deleted, so I am trying to sum this up now) is THIS-I WILL BE ABLE TO GO at least 18-19 hours taking NO PAIN MEDS BEFORE STARTING THE SUBOXONE TOMORROW, I took about 25 norcos TODAY instead of my usual 10mg percs, I took 10mg norcos, and took a little less than usual, and took them all since early this morning, the last 5 I took around 1:45PM. This last week I have been trying to take a little less than usual on most days and also take a medicine not as strong as my CHOICE (10mg percocets) so I went back and forth all week between percocet 7.5mgs and 10mg norcos, and tried taking a little less than USUAL. But yesterday I took at least 35-40 10mg pills (I wanted to have ONE LAST HURRAH since I planned on starting today and my brain was "rationalizing" the STUPID DECISION), figuring I was NEVER GOING to take any again after last night so I may as well "ENJOY MYSELF A LITTLE BIT", but things didn't work out as planned. So, my doctor also said it was ok to take valium to sleep and try to wait as long as possible before starting suboxone (as it is recommened to wait 24 hours) but I have tried and the longest I have been able to cope with was 16 hours, but I have it all timed out now to START TOMORROW, and PURPOSELY LEFT MYSELF WITH NO PAIN MEDS, so there is no turning back now-tomorrow is SUNDAY-and I know I will be going to bed early tonight, waking up early tomorrow, wanting to start the suboxone AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, but also do not want to put myself into withdrawals as I have read happens frequently when a person does not WAIT LONG ENOUGH and still has opiates in their bloodstream. I think that due to the LARGE AMOUNTS I HAVE TAKEN FOR SO LONG, it will take a while for them to be out of my bloodstream and I will not be able to bear the withdrawals, the body aches, the runny nose and yawning, and the fatigue, which is already going to start in a few hours, I will deal with, I dealt with it this morning before breaking down and taking norcos while trying to get my suboxone prescription filled. I will take valium to sleep and I will try to hold off as long as I can in the morning. But ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD A HABIT LIKE MINE, would be GREATLY APPRECIATED to tell me-if you suggest I start my suboxone as early as I can tomorrow morning-which will have allowed at least 17-19 hours to have elapsed since the last 5 pills I took before-do you think this will help me (and I will follow the doctors orders, starting with one 8mg pill and waiting 20 minutes and so on, taking more if needed) or do you think that due to the large amounts I have been taking for so long that this could cause me to go into even WORSE WITHDRAWALS IF I TRY TO STICK it out a few extra hours and maybe even take another valium when I get up tomorrow and try to sleep longer, so that more hours will have elapsed and I can try to make it to 24 hours untl I start the suboxone. PLEASE ADVISE. If it were up to me, I would start the suboxone right now, but I KNOW IT WILL GIVE ME IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWALS as I have taken norcos all morning and FEEL GREAT RIGHT NOW, but I want to be OFF THESE PAIN MEDS with as little discomfort as possible. So, will it be ok for me to start the suboxone early tomorrow morning or should I try to hold out longer. Originally I was also told I could even start the suboxone 12 hours after my last dose of pain meds, but that I would probably end up beinig VERY UNCOMFORTABLE for the first 24 hours, I don't want to be VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. This is why I spent almost $1000 today between the doctor and the prescription because I want to be as comfortable as possible and NOT FEEL SICK-I want this transition to be AS SMOOTH AS POSSIBLE. I wish I could have started today, but long story (which I accidentally deleted), after going 16 hours with no pain meds, I was having trouble getting the suboxone prescription filled, I was alone, driving around from pharmacy to pharmacy for hours trying to locate one that had it in stock and I BROKE DOWN AND TOOK SOME PAIN MEDS to deal with it, and then of course, right after I took some, the next pharmacy I went to, had it in stock, had I KNOWN THAT, I would have NEVER taken any pills today and I WOULD HAVE STARTED MY SUBOXONE ALREADY but of course, everything got all screwed up. Tomorrow is Valentines today, I was hoping to have started today and feel normal enough tomorrow to go to a movie but now I know I will most likely be in bed all day. Please just advise me on what best to do, and what to expect and ANY OTHER INPUT would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.
14 Feb 2010
You should wait until you score at least a 26 on the Clinical Opiate Withdrawal Scale(COWS sheet) and that will likely be at least 24 hours after you have taken the last opiates. You should probably wait 36 hours because of the dose you were taking. I can't believe you found a doctor who just sent the suboxone home with you and didn't give it to you in his/her office and check your COWS score along the 15 minute, 30 minute and 1 hour mark. Suboxone can take up to 2 full hours to finish relieving pain. Best of Luck and you are not supposed to take valium or any other benzo with it because it can cause you to quit breathing.
15 Feb 2010
yea buddy you just put off feeling better now you need to wait at least 24 hours,and dude just deal with it i know withdrawl sucks but think of the reward of not having them anymore after you go through a little.and man i had about the same habit as you and i know you have been through withdrawl numerous times,and it doesnt start to get really bad until about 3 days into it..but if you trully cant handle it i think it would be fine to start after abou 20 hours..and quit takeing the opiates... good luck
21 Feb 2010
Hey, I am glad you didn't go into bad precipitated withdrawal. I am not sure about your doctor, It is really uncommon to be prescribed any benzo, Valium included while even on one 8 milligram pill. Check other posts to see what I mean. The sweating will go away if you can stabilize on a lower dose. I hope you continue to do well and get some counseling and a support group of some type. I actually have panic/anxiety disorder and they won't let me have any benzo and I am only on 1.5 milligrams of suboxone.
27 Feb 2010
It is me again, will try to put the indents and paragraphs onhere as I KNOW THIS IS VERY LONG, I am the one who started this post/question and I have been reading other boards and wanted to offer feedback to others now that I am on day 12, and NOT HAPPY, so this pretty much tells my story AGAIN but with more detail and up TO NOW, I am copying and pasting below, some of my details may not be 100 percent accurate but as close to everything I can remember and I would like to spread the word on as many sites as I can, AS TO MY EXPERIENCE, so please bear with me but read below and you can skip to the part where I started the suboxone if you already read my original post before starting, since this is VERY DETAILED AND VERY LONG.
Wow. I spent SO much time reading up on the "positives" of suboxone before starting it (I started 12 days ago) that I seemed to "overlook" the "negatives", I guess that was the painkiller addict in me that was LOOKING FOR AN EASY WAY OUT, with little to no suffering. This may be a little long but I think the MORE INFO out there THE BETTER_PLEASE READ THIS IN ITS ENTIRETY IF YOU ARE ADDICTED TO PAINKILLERS AND CONSIDERING SUBOXONE, I AM GIVING YOU MY PERSONAL STORY AND IT MAY REALLY HELP YOU and INFLUENCE YOU TO MAKE A WISE DECISION, I have been "meaning" to start writing on some of these boards so that I can give my input and MY RECENT experience, but have felt so BLAH. But FINALLY, I am here to give you some of MY STORY and I HOPE this will help some of you with PAINKILLER addictions make the RIGHT CHOICE and I am here to tell you ONLY MY OPINION and my experience in these 12 days so far as a new suboxone user and former PAINKILLER ADDICT. I was taking LOTS of percocet, 10mg percocet-my average was 30 a day this last year, AND IN RECENT MONTHS on some days I took 60 per day, I AM NOT KIDDING YOU, these last few months, my "AVERAGE" was 30 per day, or 300 mg, but many days it was 45 pills or 50 pills, up to 60 or a little more, my painkiller addiction has been probably for about 7 years or more, starting on just vicodin 7.5mg as needed, then a few a day, then a few EVERY DAY, then it got to the point where I could no longer take vicodin because TOO MUCH TYLENOL in it would make me sick to my stomach, given the HANDFULS I took at a time to get that same feeling I used to get when I took just one (when I moved on to JUST PERCOCETS I was needing at least 7 vicodins 7.5mg AT A TIME to "feel anything"-FEEL NORMAL and OK, and I would take that dose a few times a day. So, then I preferred percocet, as I could take less and TWO YEARS ago I THOUGHT I HAD A PROBLEM when I NEEDED at least 8-10 percocet a day to just FEEL NORMAL, to just get by-at that time I checked myself into detox.
This detox consisted of using a "cocktail" of neurontin (non narcotic pain reliever, blood pressure meds, and some other vitamin), after ONE DAY I was no longer having withdrawals but having bad side effects from the blood pressure meds, which made me feel like I was on acid. After much complaining and my needs NOT BEING met, feeling like I was being OVERMEDICATED and already "HEELED from my painkiller addiction" I checked out after 3-4 days. I FELT FINE except the side effects of the blood pressure meds (dilated pupils, seeing double, feeling WEIRD), stayed in bed a day BUT NOT CRAVING PAIN MEDS or anything and after that I WAS CLEAN FOR A MONTH. So, that short detox actually WORKED FOR ME, as far as withdrawals, BUT during that month-something was just missing for me, I can't explain it, but I guess anyone who has taken painkillers, even if it was just about 8 per day, like me, FOR SO MANY YEARS-and then gets off them-maybe understands what I mean. I JUST WANTED TO FEEL NORMAL, to feel like my OLD SELF. A person who is generally happy and likes to do fun things, and has a normal functioning life, normal functioning friendships, etc. BUT, instead, I FELT "BLAH" pretty much every day that month, that is my famous word to describe the feeling. I have been told that since us painkiller addicts use up so many of our "opiod receptors" when taking all these pills, that our definition of "NORMAL" is not the same as it was for us PRIOR to our addictions, and it can take weeks, months or years to get that back. I was hoping FOR DAYS TO WEEKS and I tried to do things to keep myself busy, but at that time, did not have a lot of friends around (had moved far away and didn't know many people), I tried going to church and just doing anything to ENJOY LIFE and feel normal, but it was not working. Please understand, I WAS NOT CRAVING PILLS but I just did not feel like myself, I was starting to feel depressed, and I was never like that before, so I even bought over the counter vitamin supplements which I hoped would help (like St. John's Wort and L tryptophan or something(something that is similar to that stuff in turkey) of course, I was looking for SOMETHING to make me feel better. I used that stuff for 3 weeks, NO HELP WHATSOEVER. So, eventually, I decided one day that "I could take a vicodin and CONTROL IT" and just take one every now and then when I felt I NEEDED that little burst of energy or something to take away these depressing feelings so I took that ONE PILL, and I felt great. The next day, I may not have taken a pill but the day after I did, then it slowly progressed back up to a few pills a day and somehow here I am 2 years later, progressed up to percocets, taking at least 10 times more than I did when I checked into detox and thought I had a problem back then (because even back then if I went a day without pills, the withdrawals were BAD).
Also, YOU WOULD THINK I WOULD HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING IN THE DETOX, one guy was there for "suboxone detox" and I was like "hey, I looked into taking that to get off my pills but it was not widely available where I lived and the waiting list to get in to a doctor was months away. Anyway, I told myself recently "that guy" must have ABUSED his suboxone and I WILL NOT BE LIKE HIM because I ACTUALLY WANT TO GET OFF THESE PILLS, yes I WAS LOOKING FOR A MIRACLE, I STILL AM, an easy way out, but honestly, it is easier and cheaper for me to get percocets than to take suboxone (I am not going to get into that, but I have some unique connections that made it very easy for me to keep up my habit every month and obtain hundreds of them). BUT I WANTED TO STOP, the thing is, I NO LONGER GET A GOOD FEELING from the pills, NEVER, I was just trapped in a vicious cycle, wake up, take 4 pills (10mg percs), an hour later take 4 more and so on the day goes until I was so wound up or sick that I went to bed (and took something to sleep usually). I will say-YES-I got energy from them-but I also got INSANE OCD and spent too much time on stupid things, OVER CLEANING, OVER DOING EVERYTHING, touching things, etc. etc. etc that the hours would fly by in the day and next thing you know I have already taken over 30 pills and I never felt "good" but I FELT KIND OF NORMAL at least and could get by.
But, I also realize I AM PROBABLY SCREWING MY LIVER SO BAD (I have not had it checked in years) and I was having mood swings and revolving A LOT OF TIME around getting the pills, making sure I had them, even if I had 90 one day, I was already worried and planning everything around getting more the next day knowing I would be running out soon (YES, I had connections to get them but it was time consuming and involved a lot of running around and planning and dealing with some shady people ). EVERYTHING IN MY LIFE was revolving around my next pill, and I would have to plan EVERYTHING AROUND "making sure I had enough pills to do it", like "washing the dog", "cleaning the car", "grocery shopping", attending a wedding, going on vacation, EVERYTHING REVOLVED AROUND MY HAVING ENOUGH PILLS, and I was ALWAYS ON THE GO. Because, HONESTLY, for the MOST PART-I could get them, but there were always a few days per month that things were harder, and I might wake up one day and have 50 pills and know I can't get more until day after next, I would be SO STRESSED ALREADY, that even though I was taking pills all day, and a few the next day, KNOWING I would run out early next day, the "wheels would be turning", I would be moody and sometimes even put myself into bad situations that AN OTHERWISE SANE PERSON would not do, situations where I could have gotten in big trouble, but during those times, my desire or NEED for pills would overcome me and I would RATIONALIZE everything and put myself in these bad situations anyway.
So, that was another reason I WANTED TO "QUIT WHILE I WAS AHEAD" as I have been "lucky" not to have gotten into any legal trouble or anything like that and luck only lasts so long. I WANTED to live a clean pill free life, BUT KNEW I COULD NOT HANDLE THE WITHDRAWALS and doing it alone, I knew this as I have tried before and ALWAYS END UP "finding a way" and getting some, even if a day passed having NONE, and I was in bed, sweating with diarrhea, I would FIND A WAY TO MAKE A PLAN and even if I had to get up and dressed and drive hours away, I would be on my way and get more, the mental part is just as hard as the physical, the dreams of the pills, the weighing the "pros and the cons" and all the stupid things I felt about myself "that I was a nicer person on pills, much more friendly, much more laid back, felt like I was "getting stuff done" and they gave me the energy and motivation I needed to feel RIGHT and NORMAL, but I was just fooling myself, because at the point I was at, YES-I NEEDED THEM TO FEEL "NORMAL" but I also no longer really know what NORMAL feels like, and I also NEVER GET THAT EUPHORIC FEELING I USED TO GET, except maybe if I went a day without them, the first 4 I took the next day would BE GREAT, and they made me SO TALKATIVE-but I also was realizing all the "NEGATIVES" and thinking about how drug abuse runs in my family, how I don't want to pass that down to the younger generations, how many people I have seen succumb to their "drug of choice" to the point of being homeless, stealing, prostituting, even death. I would always rationalize that I "took prescription drugs, not street drugs, I was not like that", but who was I fooling? MYSELF? I was taking 5-10 times more than I was "prescribed" LEGALLY and in this last year where I have "wanted to eventually quit", it was "never a good time", always something going on where "how could I quit while this is going on?" Whether it be: fighting with my spouse, moving, starting a new job, hosting a holiday dinner, my birthday, somebody elses birthday, a toothache or a sickness or ailment (mine or somebody elses), ALWAYS SOMETHING that would HOLD ME BACK from trying to quit since it was "not a good time".
FINALLY, I looked up suboxone AGAIN and I ONLY LOOKED FOR THE "POSITIVE" stories, which now that I think about it, were mostly from ex-heroin users. I am NOT JUDGING ANYONE, I am saying that I was READING ALL THE GOOD THAT suboxone brought to their lives, but me being a painkiller addict and just an ADDICT IN GENERAL was only looking for the GOOD MIRACLE CURE for my addiction. Even when I read that many people are on it for a LONG TIME, I still figured "if I use it, I will use it for a shorter period of time than those people". I now live in NY where it is widely available, but VERY EXPENSIVE, I have no insurance, and it wouldn't matter since NONE of the doctors I contacted took insurance ANYWAY, but they did say insurance would cover the cost of the prescription. Income tax refund comes in, I figure, NOW IS THE TIME TO TRY, yes it will be expensive, I found the CHEAPEST DOCTOR I COULD, $300 for the initial visit and $150 for each follow up visit (every month) plus cost of prescription, which was on average at all the drug stores I went to between $600-$790 PER MONTH for 90 8mg subxone pills. I wound up using a free prescription savings card which I found online (just type in free USA drug plan printable card or something similar to find cards like this), I actually printed out 5 different cards and when I FOUND A PHARMACY THAT HAD it in stock, I asked them to check every card and use the one that saves me most, it wound up costing me $556 at Rite Aid with the savings card. I am trying to give as MUCH INFO AS POSSIBLE to anyone reading this, use this info as you NEED, but please read THIS ALL. Yes, I chose the cheapest doctor, was that the smart thing to do, probably not, but SORRY, I could not afford the doctors who wanted $300 up front plus additional fees for lab work and urinalysis and wanted me to come in during withdrawals, where they would then give me a small scrip to go fill and then come back to their office, have them administer it to me and watch me for some time, and monitor me and ensure the amount I would need to "feel ok", then come back the next day, pay another $150, do the same thing, and leave with a one week prescription, then come back pay another $150-$200 to be MONITORED again and get another week prescription and do the same thing the next week (another $150 to $200 plus another prescription which would then be for a month supply of the CORRECT DOSE I WOULD NEED-basically about 10 different doctors gave me this same scenario and said the first month is about $1000 in doctors office visits alone plus the cost of the medicine/prescription.
I thought I "LUCKED OUT" when I found a doctor and after just emailing him my situation-how many pills I take, how many years, etc. etc. etc, he told me I could come in to see him for $300 and he would give me a prescription for 90 of the 8mg suboxones and then it would be $150 per month to see him after that. Of course, I CHOSE HIM, maybe part of it was the addict in me, happy that he was going to prescribe me the highest dosage and basically let me "monitor myself", I don't know, because I WAS SINCERE in wanting to quit, but looking for the easiest cheapest way out. He also recommended for me to try to wean down as much as I can before coming in to see him and wait until I get down to 1 pill every 4-6 hours, then take my last one the night before seeing him, I told him that was not happening, it was impossible, and if I could do that, why would I need him or suboxone anyway. I did LOWER MY USUAL daily intake for the week or two leading up to seeing him, I took 3 pills at a time, instead of 4, and took them less throughout the day, and then started taking 7.5mg percs, then 10mg norcos, trying to get down to a lower form of medicine and a lower dosage, since he said I would BE VERY UNCOMFORTABLE if I started suboxone only 12 hours after my last USUAL DOSE as I WANTED TO DO, the easy way out. I fluctuated for a week or two, took 25 pills one day, 20 another, maybe 15 another, then 30 another, than 35 another, back down to 25, during those days leading up to my appt. with him, DAMN I WAS IN WITHDRAWALS knowing I was planning on quitting and TRYING TO CUT BACK ALREADY, I WAS ALREADY moody, irritable, hot/cold sweats, all that crap, EVEN TAKING that many pills per day, I WAS ALREADY WITHDRAWING(since you have to be in withdrawals before starting suboxone-they recommend 24 hours-but at LEAST 12 hoursI went to the doctor about 13 hours after I took my last pills, the day before I went 16 hours with no pills since I had an appt. to see him but it got cancelled due to weather, so I ended up taking pills that day and prett much figuring I WOULD HAVE ONE LAST "HOORAH" and wound up taking about 30 norcos that last day/night, I went to see him at his "home office".
Wow, it was not anything I expected, basically I was at a kitchen table, talked for an hour but didn't have to fill out anything or show anything or get any tests done, he "acted" like he was concerned but I could tell that this was more of a "paying for the prescription" and then figure it out on your own type of doctor, which at the time, I kind of liked. He wrote the prescription for the 90 pills at 8mg (the highest ones) and he said 3x per day on the script but told me I would need 4 the first day and could take 4 per day if needed after that. I told him I did not want to be on this long termand he said he recommends a 3 month treatment but has patients who need to take 2mg a day for the rest of their lives, everyone is different and we will just have to see. Now, I was COMPLETELY HONEST with him about my addiction and withheld nothing, and told him of my detox in the past as well, I told him as much as I could in that time I spoke to him and honestly, I was quite happy he was telling me I could take the HIGHEST DOSAGE, as it must be the "pill popper" in me, I had read all the postive stories online and knew of the different mgs and found it great he was prescribing me HIGH DOSE and I didn't go to those other more expensive doctors who may have started me at a lower dose, and weaned me down the next week and the week after, and MAYBE TREATED ME CORRECTLY, I figured this guy was a doctor and he had ALL MY INFO that he needed and HE PRESCRIBED THIS TO ME and so I am following his orders so it will all be ok (DUH-that's how my whole painkiller addiction started, from DOCTORS LEGALLY PRESCRIBING TO ME-why didn't that click in my brain). Anyway, I wanted to get out of there and get the script filled as I was yawning and teary, early withdrawals signs, and needed a "fix", he told me to WAIT AS LONG AS I COULD THAT DAY BEFORE STARTING and then when I couldn't take it anymore, put one pill under my tongue to dissolve, see how I feel after 20 minutes, if not ok do this again, and again and again, in 20 minute intervals up to 4 pills and then I should feel ok. Like I said, he also told me I COULD TAKE 4 every day if needed, even though he prescribed it for 3 a day (maybe that's the max he could prescribe, I don't know), so I left his home and then it took a few hours of driving around to get my prescription.
I recommend to anyone doing this to bring a family member or friend as I did not expect to have to be driving in mild withdrawals and have to go to 20 pharmacies to find this IN STOCK, after about 6 pharmacies I caved in and wound up taking the norco I brought in my glove compartment in case "I needed them"-Funny how I brought them with me, to the appt. where I had every intention of NOT TAKING ANOTHER PAINKILLER< but held onto about 25 norcos "just in case", and "this was the CASE". At least I felt better while on the hunt to get the suboxone filled but now I would not be able to take it until the next day since I had taken opiate painkillers (if you do take suboxone before being in some withdrawals you will bring on precipated withdrawals which are supposedly VERY BAD), so I ended up actually not starting it until the NEXT DAY. I took those 25 norcos early in the day, taking the last ones before 1-2pm and planned on sleeping as late as I could and starting suboxone the next day, I also took valium at night to sleep since this doctor SAID I COULD, even though every other thing I read SAYS YOU CAN'T, he said it was ok, and he recommends it to people who have trouble sleeping. So, I followed his orders. I wound up holding out about 21 hours before starting the suboxone, first pill, waited 20 minutes, NOTHING, second pill, waited 20 minutes, had diarrhea twice, nothing, just expected to feel something, 3rd pill, 20 minutes later, 4th pill. I don't know, I felt the same as I did after the second pill, no withdrawals, but NOT WHAT I EXPECTED, just felt like OK, not having withdrawals, but not feeling like doing much, lazed around most of day. Second day, just took the 3 pills as it said on the bottle so 24mg total throughout the day, noticed BAD HEADACHES and a SWEET TOOTH I never had before, craving ice cream and chocolate. No withdrawals but still KINDA BLAH. Day three, I took 4 pills, felt a bit "sneaky" doing so, but wanted to see if I could "FEEL GOOD", NO, same thing as days 1 and 2 and still bad headaches and no withdrawal symptoms but still just kinda BLAH. Over the next few days, I noticed I was able to get some housework done, cook, clean, food shopping, BAD HEADACHES all the time, and noticed some moodiness and irritability, like mood swings and would feel OK one minute, like go to the supermarket to grab some stuff, then got some nasty brown stuff on my jacket while in the store which MANAGED TO "RUIN MY DAY" and put me in a bad mood for the ENTIRE DAY, from that little incident. I started looking up MORE SUBOXONE INFO and a few days into it I read that once the pill dissolves under your tongue and while it dissolves that I am NOT SUPPOSED TO SWALLOW any of the liquid and spit that accumulates in my mouth (and BOY IS IT NASTY and annoying taking that pill), I read that is why I am getting headaches and I should hold it all in my mouth as long as I can, I try up to 20 minutes, then SPIT it all out, so I have been doing that and the headaches have gone away, but why doesn't the doctor or the pharmacy or the SUBOXONE WEBSITE tell you this. Apparently has something to do with the naloxone they put in it and so that people CANNOT ABUSE IT by crushing or chewing so if you swallow any of it, you get bad side effects, but it is REALLY SO GROSS to let it dissolve under your tongue for 20 minutes, feels like a big snot in your mouth and you just wait as long as you can to spit, and has an orange vitamin bitter taste.
Ok, so the headaches went away but in my quest to find out WHY I was getting headaches I SUDDENLY STARTED SEEING what I had not seen before (or chose NOT TO SEE) how getting off suboxone is harder than getting off my painkiller of choice and the longer I am on it, the higher my dose, the harder it will be, it can take years, and it sounds like AGONY and many people go back to their pills and then just withdraw from them AFTER taking suboxone for months or years, because the withdrawal is LESS PAINFUL, so then, WHY THE HECK DID I PAY ALL THIS MONEY FOR THE SUBOXONE. Because, let me tell you now, I DO NOT FEEL GOOD, I do not even think I can say I feel ok, NO, I am NOT HAVING WITHDRAWALS, but I am having OTHER SIDE EFFECTS, HORRIFIC NIGHTMAREs-INTENSE AND VERY REAL, mood swings, avoiding friends, not "into" doing much, getting agitated at LEAST ONCE PER DAY and BLOWING UP LIKE A LUNATIC, severe mood swings and irritability, watching a lot of tv, eating A LOT OF SWEETS, it seems ALL I AM IN THE MOOD FOR, haven't had a bowel movement since I STARTED TAKING IT so I am EXTREMELY BLOATED, oh wait, I had one small one 4 days ago-after taking a lot of ex-lax-but NOT "REGULAR" AT ALL, and probably put on 10 pounds ALREADY. Worried, I will end up HOOKED ON THIS and NOT be able to afford it next month or the month after and EVEN WORSE, (the addict in me) is NOW SAYING "why would I put up with ALL THIS-and NOT EVEN FEEL GOOD, or "NORMAL" as I thought I would, why am I paying to feel agitated and annoyed and have bad side effects and then if I STOP TAKING THIS I WILL HAVE WORSE WITHDRAWALS than I would have had before, if I quit the painkillers). Basically, I currently "for the most part" kind of feel like I did after my short detox-but WITH SOME ADDED BAD SIDE EFFECTS, no I am not craving pills or having withdrawals, but I do think about "how much better I would feel if I took some pills" and I do get unreasonable thoughts in my head, like "maybe I will stop my suboxone for a day and try to take a pill or two-a percocet and see if I am ok with just one percocet or two for a day INSTEAD of suboxone, then I can just at LEAST FEEL OK for a day, maybe take nothing the next day, or maybe one percocet, and see how I can do that and maybe TAPER OFF THAT WAY, since it has already been over a week with no percocets, maybe it will be diffrent, and maybe that is a better idea than getting hooked on these suboxones which do not even MAKE ME FEEL NORMAL AS I THOUGHT THEY WOULD.
So, I am trying to "play doctor" with myself and I feel NOW that this doctor has OVERMEDICATED ME so that I get HOOKED and he gets more money from me and "kickbacks" from the drug manufacturer the longer I am on this drug and I don't want to be on this, since it too is "supposedly a narcotic" but ALL IT HAS DONE FOR ME IS make me not have withdrawals BUT GAVE ME NEW SYMPTOMS that are unenjoyable and in the past I did detox and was NOT HAVING WITHDRAWALS after just 2 days, so maybe I would have just needed a QUICK SUBOXONE treatment, like the 3 week taper I ONLY NOW read so much about, the "RIGHT WAY TO USE IT", or even the "ONE WEEK DETOX USING SUBOXONE", how come I SAW NONE OF THAT BEFORE I STARTED TAKING THIS? THAT IS WHY I AM WRITING THIS, TO HELP OTHERS who are where I was almost two weeks to MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION FOR YOU.
So, here is what I did a few days ago, after a week or so of three times per day, I decide to bite one of my pills in half and take about 20 mg one day, and another day I take about 18mg (remember my doctor prescribed 24mg but SAID I CAN TAKE 32mg if I need to). I pretty much FELT THE SAME ON THOSE DAYS, but then the 3rd day FELT VERY BAD, VERY MOODY and had a VERY BAD NIGHTS SLEEP so the next day I took my 24 mg. The day after that I took HALF of what I should and felt the same pretty much BUT then a BIG STRESSFUL SITUATION OCCURED-unsupportive people around me and I really kind of FLIPPED OUT and was now thinking about trying to go back to my percocets since I COULD NOT DEAL WITH THE STRESS IN MY LIFE and the suboxone is NOT HELPING and I am trying to taper off of it, and the people around me ARE NOT HELPING (blaming other people besdies myself). Some BLAME THEY DESERVE but in the long run, every choice I have made is really mine, so I really have no one to blame but myself, but many times I believe I took as many pills as I did to DEAL with my HIGH STRESS LIFE.
So anyway, I may have some of my days mixed up, I am now writing on my calendar (which if anyone starts I recommend keeping TRACK of how you feel and how much you took each day), but like I said, it is now NIGHT 13, and I have been trying to take a little less each day, I think yesterday I broke one pill so I took 18-20 mg, but the day before I needed to take ALL THREE-high stress day, I was planning on taking only two but SOMETHING CAME UP AND I FELT LIKE I NEEDED THAT THIRD ONE (that is the WEIRD THING ABOUT THIS DRUG, I don't know why I felt like I needed the third pill that day to DEAl with the stress since the pills are really DOING NOTHING TO MAKE ME FEEL "BETTER" but for some reason, I felt I needed it, although I GET "NOTHING" out of taking it), and TODAY I took only TWO PILLS and plan to take NO MORE TODAY, so that will be 16mg for today, not sure if I will pay for that tomorrow or the next day, since I hear about the "long halflife" and that is why sometimes you do not feel the WORSE FEELINGS for a day or two. My point is, I realize, THIS IS NOT THE MIRACLE CURE FOR ME, I want this bottle of 90 to be ENOUGH FOR ME TO TAPER/WEAN MYSELF down to taking NONE and still feel ok, or at least feel as crappy as I do now, but with NO WITHDRAWALS and than take it from there, because I don't see why I should PAY to not even feel ok. I guess what I am saying is, the DETOX cocktail of neurontin and blood pressure meds, cured my withdrawals JUST THE SAME, yes, gave me weird side effects, but that was over after 2 days of stopping and I was NOT BED RIDDEN. So, I am paying all this money for subxone and now do I have to worry that although I FEEL the same in "general spirits" as I did last time I quit, BUT WORSE in the fact that I have these bad side effects, that I will feel EVEN WORSE when I STOP TAKING THIS and will I continue to feel worse these next few weeks if I lower my dose each day.
I can't take this and do not have the support I need to go through weeks or months of feeling this way. I cannot afford NOR do I want to be on suboxone for years or even months, THIS ONE MONTH or less would be preferrable but now I AM WORRIED about it, and wondering if I should try to really cut down fast since I am already on my 12th day, cutting down a little, but I know if I pass the 21 day mark, I WILL BE SCREWED as far as "getting off of it". I can't believe this either. I know people who chose the methodone route but they enjoyed it and abused it, and I CHOSE NOT to go that route, even though it was MUCH CHEAPER, because I knew I would probably enjoy it and eventually abuse it too, here I am, OPPOSITE END OF THE SPECTRUM, not enjoying anything, wanting to be off suboxone ALREADY, have felt like this the last few days, ALL IT HAS DONE FOR ME IS NOT MAKE ME HAVE WITHDRAWALS, THAT IS IT, NOTHING ELSE, EXCEPT the bad side effects. I now think that I would recommend to someone, if you have insurance, to do detox and NOT suboxone (I cannot afford detox currently), because subxone is not all it is cracked up to be for pain killer addicts. Maybe it is a miracle for heroin addicts or other addicts, MAYBE, but it SURE is NOT the right thing for me and I think I could have spent the money I spent on it on something better and just weaned myself down off the pills over a period of time, if I knew then what I know now, that is the choice I would have made, knowing I would feel LOUSY ANYWAY, at least I would feel A LITTLE BETTER THAN I DO NOW.
7 Jul 2010
Dude... I suppose it's probably been years and years since you wrote this... have someone drop you off on a hiking trail such as the Pacific Crest or the Appalachian trail. Find an area where you will be isolated for a 2-3 week hike, away from main roads. Go there with a small amount of your chosen " " in order to allow you to hike for at least 3 days. On the fourth day plan on being out of everything. In this situation you will find that you are forced to go through the damn w/d's and it is much easier than doing it in a situation where things are readily available. I would also advise anyone who is going through that crap to plan on moving far away from your sources. When it is readily available to you, relapse will occur again and again until you find something that makes sobriety worth it for you. I myself am a functioning individual, no matter what I am doing. I can work, be a father, and do everything while at the same time secretly feeding the monster.
In the past my life would be in shambles and it would be easy to come clean. People would be trying to kill me and I would be literally homeless. I couldn't afford to eat any longer, how was I to afford that? I have found that the more functional your life is, the less unmanageable it is, the harder it is. Good luck to you
10 Jul 2010
To the person who left the saracastic response about being dropped in the woods for a few days, or "moving away', I want to say that while I can appreciate your wit and sarcasm, I can also relate to you being on your computer reading my story & taking the time to send such a response, I did the same thing when I was taking p's all the time. I can tell you from personal experience that "moving away" solves nothing as where there is a will there is a way, and being dropped in the wilderness is a bit far-fetched & would bring on a whole new set of problems about how to even "survive that". You have to want to quit, as I did, and I was not forced into quitting or anything, just knew MY HABIT WAS HUGE & I was probably killing myself (I mean, how about my liver?, I only hope I did not damage it)...
I can say TODAY that I do NOT KNOW HOW I took 30-60 p's per day as if I did that today I am sure I would OD, but my struggle goes on, I have flip flopped with the suboxone, I STILL HAVE about 20 of my ORIGINAL Pills from first prescription, which I break into pieces of about 2mg to 4mg each and on some days I take them to "TRY TO FEEL OK", but they still bring on a whole new set of problems, CRAZY DREAMS, weird cravings, mood swings, etc. In the last 5 months since I quit my "old habit", I have still gone back to taking a few p's during certain days of the month, not nearly as many as I once did, but I do "feel better" on those days, at least I think I do. Then I take small amounts of the suboxone or nothing for days or weeks and it's a vicious back& forth cycle, I can say this, I feel MUCH LESS PRODUCTIVE since I quit my old habit, my TO DO LIST has gotten huge, I don't know where all the TIME HAS WENT, my sleep routine SUCKS, and I can't beleive it has been FIVE MONTHS.
I still do not feel "normal" or ok, and I don't know what the solution is anymore. I have actually lost weight, not sure why, but seem to eat more junk food, sleep less and go into "mood swings" very often. But, on the days I have taken a few p's, because I "needed them" or somehow rationalized "needing them", I felt better & was more productive but tried to OVER DO IT at some point in the day (like if I had 16 & planned to take them at 4 a day for 4 days, I would instead take 4 at a time twice a day and I could feel myself getting "high" off them and speedy, but still did the same thing next day, it's crazy but just to UPDATE EVERYONE, I did KICK the old habit but still have that craving & addiction, still take a few here & there (very little compared to what I used to, probably 1 percent if even that), but still do not FEEL BETTER, if anything, may feel worse, not even sure anymore,
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