My brother has been addicted to opiates for years due to a prior leg injury requiring 3 surgeries and much pain. From there he never got off of the opiates prescribed and it seems he had taken matters into his own hands to get what he "needs". Things grew out of control and he started having debilitating head pain, so bad that he went to the ER over 10 times to figure out what it was. We thought it was from drugs but they ended up finding a psuedo tumor and put him on klonopin and xanax to relieve him of the pressure. He later admitted that he still had an opiate addiction while some of this crap was going on. He is now on soboxine to try get off opiates but he often seems like he is still on opiates not soboxine. He denies being on opiates but there is a clear difference in his personality when he is on opiates . We think he might be selling the soboxine to get money for opiates. Also he is studying to be a pharmacist so he must know about the interactions with these drugs. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get through to him? He can't stop taking klonopin because it is dangerous with his pseudo tumor. Sorry this is a really long message but it's a complicated situation.
Responses (3)
Thor2835 Feb 2012
Hi jkns,
I'm not sure what you mean by a pseudo tumor? But the Buprenorphine in Suboxone does cause a person to feel better. Most of us feel less depressed, much more optimistic, some people even feel more energetic. I suppose that could look like he's still taking opiates. The thing is with regular opiates these feelings come and go everyday, before and after each dose. But not with Sub. Sub works like an anti depressant drug. Once you feel better, you keep feeling depressant.
Mary6320095 Feb 2012
Do you mean a pituatary tumor? If so, it will affect some behavior as it messes with all a persons hormones of which some are are you deal with stress & certain other behaviors. I wish him all the luck with this tumor situation. My hubby had one removed from the pituatary gland, & had many problems related to that. Headaches behind his eye was the worst. The tumor had grown around the optic nerve & into the bone. They did not anticipate this even with a 3D CT scan. Just so you know these problems can play a part in his behavior... Mary632009
jkns
5 Feb 2012
Hello,
Thanks to you as well for answering my question. Above I described what a psuedotumor is... which sounds like it can be similar to what your husband had... and I know psuedotumors can certainly affect the eyes and even blind people. Luckily he didn't have that problem... only tons of head pressure, debilitating head pressure. He hasn't complained of the head pressure since he started taking klonapin and xanax which they use to treat it.
But... he still struggles with his opiate addiction. Last month he almost overdosed on heroin and has admitted never kicking his pill problem after the leg surgeries. So... supposedly now he is only taking Suboxine, no opiates ... although we have noticed his behavior changes. For instance he will go out for 30 mins come back and be extremely talkative and loving. Unlike the 30 min before. On a consistent basis he is pretty rude, angry and aggressive. His attitude is much different from a few years ago.
Mary632009
6 Feb 2012
No, don't apologize. I am not any way shape or form a suoxone expert, but from what I have read on here if you are on it & take a narcotic, the narcotic doesn't work Right Thor if your there? So he's either not on the subs I would suspect. If you ar giving him money for the subs, or something, go with him to get it otherwise he may be doing drugs & using that money to pay for them. Sounds kind of fishy to me too. Good luck to you. I hope it all works out for the best for you & him. Being an addict is a life of pure hell I can tell you that. I hoe for his sake he is not doing drugs with this tumor pending. Probably not a good mix. Just my thoughts... Mary
7 Feb 2012
Hey jkns,
Are you here? I'm really worried about your brother. I'd like to know what happened. I also happened to speak with an old buddy tonight. This is a guy I know from a very long time ago. He's clean now, but he was once a Heroin addict. I suppose I get most of Heroin information from him. I don't like what he told me. It's scary. So if you are around, please tell us how your bro is?
jkns
7 Feb 2012
Hey Thor,
Sorry I didn't respond earlier and thanks for checking in. That's an insane story you have there and I'm glad you survived. Thanks for sharing and being online to help others. In your case it's good that you took matters into your own hands especially since it worked. I've been in situations where I know the doctors and giving me the "easy fix" for there sake, but it never works in the long run. In fact it's crazy how much we have to watch over our doctors anymore. Their connections to pharmaceutical companies and fear of lawsuits.
Thor283
7 Feb 2012
Hi jkns,
So I guess the situation is still going on. I guess what happens when he sees the Sub Doc next may change things. I hope not for the worse.
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2 answers • 15 Feb 2012 •
Thank you both for responding, it's much appreciated. Here's how they define Pseudotumor cerebri:
Pseudotumor cerebri occurs when the pressure inside your skull increases for no obvious reason. Symptoms mimic those of a brain tumor, but no tumor is present. he increased intracranial pressure associated with pseudotumor cerebri can cause swelling of the optic nerve and result in vision loss. Medications often can reduce this pressure, but in some cases, surgery is necessary.
He is taking xanax and klonapin to try and decrease the pressure, these medicines were prescribed to him. - The problem with that is that now he is mixing either opiates or suboxine with these meds, which I read is really dangerous.
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I know his condition can cause behavioral differences... but my parents said they walk in his room to check on him and occasionally he looks half dead like drooling and head hanging off the bed. I'm trying to figure out if it's because he is mixing the meds with suboxine or doing heroin or other opiates. It's just hard to distinguish what is going on... but based on what you said about feeling more stable and consistent on suboxine then it seems he is not just taking suboxine.
Do you know what doctors test for when people receive Suboxine? Because he is going to get Suboxine on a weekly basis and they test him for something but he is so secretive that nobody knows what the results are or even what they are testing for. Apparently he was going 1 a month because he was doing well and keeping clean for a while but the last time he went he must have failed "the test" and they are now making him go once a week again.
Again thanks for your time.
Hi jkns,
Oh, you didn't say this before. Looking half dead, head hanging off the bed and drooling sounds like Heroin, and a lot of Heroin. Which does make sense because unlike Methadone you can't take extra Heroin with Suboxone and still get high. It won't work. Eventually you'll kill yourself with an OD. I think he needs to be told this in no uncertain terms. Suboxone will block the high from opiates, and even a lot of their pain killing properties, but Suboxone will not stop the other opiates from killing you. So unless this Pseudotumor cerebri can cause him to look that way, and I don't know, then I'd say that's a lot of Heroin. He probably took some Suboxone and now he's trying to get high on Heroin anyway.
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Suboxone doesn't cause a high. And going on it is difficult after Heroin. It can take 2 weeks before he stops feeling withdrawal symptoms (wds). That may be what happened. Maybe he tries to take Suboxone and it isn't making all the wds go away? If so maybe he's doing the dope to be rid of the wds? I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.
About mixing Sub with the Benzos (Xanax and Klonopin). It isn't anymore dangerous than mixing a Benzo with any other opiate. Opiates and Benzos tend to amplify each other. But he needs both and that's quite alright. I take both and all I do is use a little less of each to compensate. I think the bigger problem is the Benzos amplifying the Heroin, not the Sub.
Most Sub Docs do a urine test that checks for the various opiates. I'm uncertain as to whether it tells them how much of the opiate is present. They also test for the presence of Benzos, and drugs like Ambien and Lunesta. I think they're also testing for Cocaine, and amphetamines. Probably alcohol too. But I think the test is just for the presence of these drugs, not how much. I also think you're right. If he was going once a month and now it's once a week it's because they found something that shouldn't have been there. I'm sure he denied it and those UA tests are notorious for giving false positives. Some Heroin addicts will actually use Suboxone for a few days before the test, and then go back to Heroin after the test. I knew the Mother of 1 Heroin addict who kept going back and forth from Heroin to Suboxone. Quite honestly I don't know how he did that without going insane. I wasn't a Heroin user, but I have had to go back and forth from Sub to pain meds several times and I hate it. I don't understand how some guys do this every week. But I have heard of it before.
One purpose of Suboxone use was so Doc's didn't have to waste time with Heroin users who didn't want to stay off the dope. So I think your brother will get kicked out if he keeps showing dirty urine. It's not like a Methadone clinic where they keep trying to work with you. I think your parents will have to force him into a drug rehab program. Maybe they can find one which will switch him to Suboxone and keep him in there and on it 1 - 3 months. I don't think that's the usual standard procedure, but maybe there is a place that will do that because he became addicted due to pain and surgeries.
Someone has to tell him he can accidentally kill himself doing what he's doing. Maybe you, or maybe your parents? Best wishes to you and your brother. Let us know if you need more help.
That information is so helpful. It seems as though he is not ready to get better, but wants to. It's helpful to know what they are testing for to try and piece this together since he will not tell us the truth or let us dose out his med. etc. Something fishy is going on otherwise he wouldn't need the pills in his possession. Also I forgot to mention at one point his meds were supposedly lost.. leaving me to believe he is selling them. I'm so terrified of what is to come of this. He won't even answer my calls. I just keep texting him all of the info I find on the internet so that he at least knows what he is getting into. Did anyone reach you when you were down and out? How did they do it if so? I know each situation is unique. I really appreciate your help and thoughts. God Bless. Also good luck to you in your endeavors.
Hi jkns,
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I'm glad I can be of help. I was never down and out on opiates. My whole career with opiates started with the tips of 2 fingers getting ripped off while working on my car. Even then I never took too many. When I'm in control of the situation it's fine. But 8 months later I went to a PM specialist and he got me on 24 Vicodin ES a day. I finally told him I had enough and then to get me off it ... his painless easy way ... was to put me on Methadone. That seemed sooo wrong to me. Vicodin has the weakest opiate in it, and Methadone is one of the most powerful. Well that turned into a nightmare. To get out of that nightmare I had to become an opiate expert myself. And all without the Internet because it was 1997. It took me 2 years to finally get off that Methadone, and I did it in a way that surprised even the Doc. But this is one reason I know so much. I either learned fast, or I would have died on that Methadone. I now know Methadone doesn't agree with my body chemistry.
So I guess I can't help you reach him from personal experience. I might be able to help if I knew more about him. I'd also like to know if you're older or younger? And are you also a man? I think, but I'm not certain? A sister can try ploys that a brother maybe cannot, or maybe you can. I'm at loss here too because I don't have siblings. I just have a vast knowledge of drugs and how to best use them, for someone who isn't a Doc. Not just street drugs neither. I'm even learning how to use High Blood pressure meds.
You said he's in school, learning to be a pharmacist, right? Depending on how advanced he is, that means he can do things with OTC drugs even I can't do. Which also means he thinks he knows it all and he's safe doing what he's taking. But drooling with his head hanging off the bed tells me he doesn't know what he thinks he does. Even if he does know a lot, when a drug like Heroin gets it's claws into you, common sense and reason soon fail you. I have seen what Heroin does to other people. It's one of the few drugs you can get hooked on from just using it a few times. Street Meth is like that too. Just a few uses and you have cravings.
I guess I would try and appeal to whatever reasoning he has left and tell him he's going to blow a promising career as a pharmacist. I'd point out that's a career where he will help many people. How many times do we walk into our drug store and ask the pharmacist medical questions? We all do it everyday. Most of those pharmacists are helping to save lives by answering questions people are too embarrassed to ask their doc's, or sometimes they just forget. But he's going to be doing more than counting pills and putting them in bottles. He's going to help keep people healthy and alive. He may even own his own pharmacy and then can help people get the certain brand of drug they need. This is becoming a bigger issue as we move forward in this new century. Your brother can be instrumental in helping people get the medications they need to save their lives. I'd also say, "you can't save the world, but you can save it as 1 person at a time". Then I'd say, "and I'm doing my part right here and right now, saving you". If you can talk to him when he's coming off the dope, he's most likely to be feeling highly emotional and vulnerable. So heart wrenching words should work.
I would try something like this. Let us know what happens.