Me & My Stupid Drug Addict Brain: Why Did I ... ?

Thank you pup. None of you know me, but you gave me the best comment. You didn't assume to know very much. The one who assumed to know the most, was also the most wrong. I'm not taking Suboxone, so there is no Naloxone in me. Besides, the Naloxone is there to prevent a person from shooting up the Subutex pills. Other than that, the only thing the Naloxone does is make you feel wds if you swallow too much of it. That's why people do the spit thing with Suboxone. When I took Suboxone I was obviously swallowing too much Naloxone tainted saliva. I remember feeling something akin to wds and then always wanting more Suboxone. But the doc's say it's my imagination. They refuse to acknowledge that you can swallow enough Naloxone to do that. So then why does Subutex pills feel very different from Suboxone pills? The only difference is the Naloxone.

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It never ceases to amaze me how people can look at a wild bull charging at them and just stand there and say the bull isn't there. In other words, how can people deny something when the reality is in how it effects you? I think that's called superstitious behavior. The docs want to believe 1 thing, so they deny what a patient says. Fine, let them deny it. Just so long as they write me Subutex, and don't shove their Naloxone pills down my throat. Suboxone was created for needle using Heroin addicts, not us pain victims. Oh that I should tell all of you that story. But then I might disappear in the night. You'all wouldn’t believe me anyway.

Thank you again pup.

Hi Jilly,

I lost a response to you last night when my monitor suddenly went dark. Something inside the tower was making noise, and then the screen went dark. I had to shut the PC manually. I lost the post. I usually save what I'm writing as I write it. I didn't do that. Too bad too, it was a long answer. Btw, your answer was also good. You do know me somewhat.

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I wanted to address the pain issue with Subs problem. Yes it is a problem. But it's not an insurmountable problem. In an emergency you can get pain relief even with Sub in you using Morphine. I did. You can also use Oxycodone, because I have done that too. But if it's very strong pain you're probably better off with Morphine. I just hate to tell you how much you will need. Actually I can't say how much you will need, I can only tell you what I needed. I'll try to make this short, so many facts will be missing. 6 months after starting Suboxone in 2004 I was on 20 mg a day. On a Sunday morning my Gall Bladder ruptured in my sleep. I awoke in screaming pain. That is pain on 10. I had 60 mg MsContin pills so I took 1. I was supposed to take them starting that day anyway. But my Gall Bladder wasn't supposed to rupture. I think I had to take over 250 mg before I could get up and be taken to the ER. If I wasn't on Sub I guess 30, 40 or 50 mg of Morphine would have been enough. I was operated on the next morning. They kept me out of pain with Morphine injections. I never asked how much was in each shot. I was given a shot every time I woke up for the first 2 or 3 days. They kept me out of pain. I think that's what you want to hear. They also gave me general anesthesia and did the surgery just fine. The hospital docs are familiar with Buprenorphine. At least in major cities and even suburban areas, like I'm in. The only problem would be the Naloxone, but you absorb very little or none of that. Contrary to what some folks think, the Naloxone is only there to prevent ex junkies from shooting up the Sub.

I recently found out you can be on Butrans and still take 1 - 3 Percs a day for BT pain, and the Percs will work. My friend is on this combo. He said his patch has a total of 21 mg of Bupe in it. The patch is meant to be worn 7 days, although he said after day 4 the pain relieving effects fall off. Nevertheless, we're assuming he gets 3 mg a day from the patch, of Bupe. So even with 3 mg a day of Bupe, a Perc should work. Bare that in mind.

However, my experience has been you either take Sub or quit them and go on regular pain meds. However, I did this after 5 years on Sub, and I needed 100 mg a day of Oxy to stay out of wds. In several weeks I was up to 150 mg a day. And it went up rapidly. I didn't expect that, and I think the doc didn't neither. And it was the Sub doc giving me the Oxy. So yes this is scary. They really don't know much about long term Buprenorphine. I can tell you this. Buprenorphine existed for about 20 years before it was combined with Naloxone to create Suboxone. Why was Bupe never used much before? Ask your docs that my friends. Be sure to post whatever answers you get. Since we are almost all of us pain people, we have a RIGHT to be concerned about this. But I know the answers already. I don't like them. However, I stay on Bupe for pain, yes.

But more so because it works wonders for my depression and general mental state of being. I was a depressed person since I was very young. Maybe Sub didn't do this for you. My guess is you weren't or you aren't a depressed person. Sub can't help your depression if you are not depressed. Sub can't help your state of mind if you're not in a bad state to begin with. Consider yourself lucky. Bupe simply makes me feel normal, something I have never felt before. In spite of whatever drugs I took. I never felt just plain old normal.

I think we all need more facts on what Bupe is doing to our resistance to regular opiates? It seems to make it go sky high. Even once off Sub entirely, the resistance to other opiates is high. But this has yet to be proven. No one is doing a study on this. It's like even the docs are afraid to find out the truth. So we need to discover this for ourselves. It will effect us.

I can also say that for the most part, once you stay on Sub long enough, you can forget ever feeling high on opiates again. Now that may be permanent. Again, we do not know. There is certainly no money being spent to study the long term effects on a person's ability to feel high. Do you see how ludicrous such an idea is. So again, this is up to us. I was off Sub a whole year, and I still didn't feel a high from Oxy. Or maybe I was just starting to again. I'm not sure. But then I went off Oxy and back to Bupe. I'm better off on Bupe anyway. Oxy doesn't help with depression.

I better post this. My PC is making that noise again. I wish things would stop breaking. And I wish my body would stop hurting. Lately my feet and lower legs always hurt. What can this be? I have no idea.