Ok... so about a year ago I had a horrible suboxone experience and vowed I would never take it again. However about three months ago I relapsed and now now I find myself struggling to get off opiates, failing at self methadone tapers and I am unable to enter into detox because I work and have children. I have 12 suboxone left from my last prescription and I don't want to go induct? (sp) as high as the doctor told me to, nor would I be able to with that amount.. NOR do I wish to be taking suboxone for any longer than a week.. Is it even possible to stabalize and than taper within that amount of time? Someone please help. I am tired. I want this nightmare to be over already and I don't want to have the same experience I had the last time which was a straight week of no sleep.. crazy withdrawl, and a a to z list of symptoms that had me wishing i'd just gone cold turkey from the dope.
Responses (3)
Anonymous 13 Feb 2011
Hey Mary, When someone takes opiates long enough to get dependent on them and for withdrawal to occur, then that means the natural system in the brain (neurotransmitter to receptor sites) has gone offline, and the body is desperately trying to send different unpleasant and painful signals to the brain, in attempt to bypass where the system is offline and get it to send it's own opiates. This time varies, and even people who study up on this can't tell a person for sure if a certain number of subs will ensure they complete a detox and be not only withdrawal free, but that the brain has healed, that is really why you didn't get an answer, your doctor doesn't know. Suboxone is not just to stop withdrawal, it helps with cravings and the brain slowly heals and then a person stands the greatest chance of staying opiate free with no relapses. It is definitely NOT going to be just a week, if you have been on opiates for longer than a year.
LaurieShay13 Feb 2011
Hey Mary,
I can't add much to what patti said but I can reiterate that you can't take the suboxone for 48 to 72 hours after your last dose of methadone and you need to score at least a 24 on the COWS scale before initial dose. Other wise you will cause withdrawls to occur. 12 suboxone is not enough to get you through the induction period and into a maintenance period.
I really recommend you seek help from a doctor for the initial induction period and then he can prescribe the necessary sub for maintenance period and taper.
Please let us know what you decide,
Laurie
Anonymous 14 Sep 2011
Mary,
I am in a very similar situation and have been unable to get a great answer myself. Im guessing that the Sub takes the pain away and the time in order to heal is the same as it would be without.
I weened down for a couple weeks and then went and got 4(four) 8mg Suboxones. I was given 8mg the initial day and spread out another 8 mg today. I am guessing that my wd will be about a week *from previous experience.
Please keep me posted on what you find out.
Anonymous 14 Sep 2011
Hi Big Vic,
First let me welcome you if you are new to this site!
This question is 7 months old, just a friendly heads up, but your problem may need more attention than what it will get from this question.
You might want to post a question of your own, so you get the attention you need and deserve!!
Best wishes Big Vic!!
Anonymous 14 Sep 2011
Thx Sweet Lemon. I did notice that it was an old post. Initially not. i am still interested how it turned out vux it seems like the Q never got directly answered.
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I am not on a methadone program. I got some to try and detox myself with and at the end of my taper, when I came off, I was still sick. I belive this was because I was off in my measurements because Ive actually managed to detox myself with methadone succesfully many times. However now I am stuck on it. When I realized I was still sick and by day two it was only getting much worse. I continued to take methadone and other opiates, and now im trying to come up with a plan b, since my first attempt obviously failed. I do not wish to take suboxone for any length of time. I think taking meth or sub all the time is the same as using. I want to be clean. I'm confused about the suboxone. When my doctor wrote me a detox plan it was for two weeks. I built up for a couple days and then came down one a day until i was at a half.. then did the half two days and then the quarter for a couple days. His plan failed anyway and when i tried to come off I was sitll so sick.
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I found myself trying to take eigths of twos. I thought sub was like methadone in the way it would be tapered so I don't understad why the taper didn't work.I also wanted to add that i noticed yesterday on the sub bottle that i have a refill for 15. I hadn 't even noticed .. which brings my total up to 27. If you can't tell me how short I could make it. Can you give ideas on how to do a quick taper.
Can you also tell me how or if I can ask someone on here a question directly. I am new to drugs.com and i haven't figured out how to utilize it yet.. thak you for your time and your response
Hey Mary, I hope you are better on the computer than I am because I am going to advise you to go to the forum part of this site and look for a member named Robert_325 for more info. He is the most knowledgeable person on suboxone that I know of. He does have a profile here and if you look him up in the member section, you can post a private question to him also, be sure to check your own profile under questions and answers and then my questions for his response. He does prefer to take questions on the forum, tho. I can give you my advice also, I tried to explain why you are feeling sick when you stop methadone and suboxone but I will attempt to clarify it not only for you but for those who may also read this answer. Lortab, vicodin, percocet are all short acting opiates, meaning they wear off the receptor sites in the brain more rapidly than long acting meds like methadone and suboxone.
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The longer a person is on any opiate, but particularly a long acting opiate replacement ( suboxone, methadone) the brain neurotransmitters sort of go on vacation since they feel they are no longer needed and do NOT send the signal to the receptor sites to trigger the brain's own natural opiates. The longer the neurotransmitters are on vacation, the less quickly they will come back and work correctly. I think this is why you are having trouble, the brains neurotransmitters are still on vacation, and will take a longer time to reboot as they have not been used in so long. Exercise while you are tapering down sends signals to the brain neurotransmitters to come back and function again. It helps produce endorphins, the brain's natural feel good chemicals, not exactly opiate, but a good second choice for making a person feel better mentally and physically while trying to get those neurotransmitters to reboot and function. The exercise also will help regulate the eat-sleep-wake cycles that are disturbed as people like you and I are trying to get back to an opiate free state. You can experiment around to see how long you feel well on a small amount of suboxone, it was my experience that when I got down to .5 and .25 mgs ( 1/4 of a 2 mgs tablet, 1/8 of a 2 mg tablet) that I could feel the suboxone wear off in around 37 hours. If a person is on a higher dose, say 16 mgs, then it might be 3 to 5 days before the suboxone receded enough off the receptor sites and they needed to take more. Robert works in a suboxone/methadone clinic and is very very knowledgeable about what suboxone will and will NOT do. He also is recommends much lower doses than most doctors prescribe. He does have a much faster taper than the one I used, but, not everyone is determined enough and feels comfortable enough to do his recommended taper. It is really fast. I urge everyone to at least take time to stablize before they re taper down, this is what worked for me. I came off suboxone withdrawal free. I did use the amounts of taper Robert suggested, but I went 4 weeks between tapers. This allowed my brain and body to stabilize and I was able to work and function without those pesky withdrawal symptoms. I am very close to being 4 months free off suboxone and had no withdrawal. The exercise worked for me, start slow and do only 10 minutes working up a few minutes every few days. I am not computer savvy enough to tell you how to post a thread on the forum, maybe you are better than I on computer. You can privately ask Robert, please be patient, it could take a few hours to a few days for a response. I know you want to do this quickly, try to realize that your brain and body may be a little more damaged by the opiate and methadone use and may not allow you to do this as quickly as you would like to. Best of Luck, I hope things work out well and you are as comfortable as I was while you get better. PS, I am not an exercise or sport nut, I am a middle aged woman who hates exercise. A man here named mpvt explained the exercise while tapering routine to me and it made sense and seemed to work for me. Hoping the best for you, please let us know how you are. Pattishan
Sorry to keep commenting but I thought of something else I forgot to mention from your post. Many people don't like the idea of using another medication to get off the first one, but, it allows most of us to function. Suboxone opiate replacement therapy is supposed to have mandatory counseling to go with it, but I see from many many posts on this site that it is not given or taken seriously. In my counseling, the question was posed, am I considered sober ( clean, detoxed, etc) while I am on suboxone. Our counselor said YES, that we were not getting high, so we simply were taking something to keep us from getting sick and not functioning. I know there are others who are of a different opinion on that, but I agree with my counselor. Suboxone is also giving the brain a chance to heal from other opiates, it quells withdrawal and craving and many people do need that.
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Sometimes I see on here that people say their doctor put them on subs for a very short time, and the amount of time each persons brain needs to heal differs. The longer they have been dependent on opiates, or if they have had several bouts with opiate dependence, the brain gets more damaged. Doctors for the most part have no idea how long it will take nor do they know how to tell someone they might want to start tapering the suboxone. I used several symptoms as a guide to let me know I was ready. The first thing I noticed is I was nodding each and every time I sat still for more than 5 minutes, this kinda hinted to me I didn't need that much suboxone. I also had hesitation while peeing, and could "feel" the suboxone as soon as I put it under my tongue instead of it gradually over a 2 hour time frame. These might not be the same clues someone else has, but, it worked for me. I also want to add that support, staying busy and not reading horror stories about getting off suboxone are beneficial to those trying to taper off. It doesn't have to be horrible, it can be fine.
Hi Mary, my name is Shellie and Ive been taking soboxen for about 7 months now. I wish now that I stopped the drugs cold turkey cause the soboxen is extremely addictive. I thought withdrawl from opiates was bad, withdrawl from soboxen is 10 times that... if you do choose to take the soboxen, take as little as possible and depending on how much opiates you were using I think it is possible to get off the opiates with the soboxen but do it very carefully... addicts have very addictive personalities!!! I tried the methadone and was falling asleep at work!! I have 4 kids and work full time, i couldnt take the methadone anymore so thats when i went on the soboxen, like I said its very addictive, if you can do it cold turkey then I would suggest you do..but i also know how withdrawl feels... again withdrawl from soboxen
is 10 times that... Im about to go through it, my car was broken into with my soboxen in my purse and my next app. is 13 days away... good luck too you though..god bless