smaderoI became addicted to vicodine after a bad accident.I have been on suboxone for 4yrs.I need complete knee surgery but my Physician wants me off the suboxone.My Phsycitrist says wait 24 hrs go to surgery and you should be ok and have no problem with the pain meds you have to use. I dont want to do that.If I come out of surgery in horrible pain I want to be able to use the meds the surgeon gives me.So,I have broke down from 2mg to just crumbs.Last dose was 1/4 of a 2mg tab.that was 2 days ago and I am withdrawing.How long must I hang,I am 59yrs old and I hope it will be soon.Thank you♥
Buprenorphine/Naloxone - How long to withdraw off suboxone after using just crumbs for 3 months?
Details:
Added 18 Jan 2012:
I am also over weight 225 5'4" and am diabetic on anti depressants Prozac 20mg cymbalta 60mg xannax .05 serequil to sleep or Trazadone.When I lost my son to an IED explosion in Iraq I became a pill popper looking for anything to kill the pain.I want my life back♥
Responses (1)
Thor28318 Jan 2012
Hi smadero,
Both of your docs are wrong, but the pdoc is closer to the truth of the situation. After 4 years on Sub you can't get off quickly. It would take about 6 months. Can you wait that long?
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hey Thor, if smadero has weaned down to .5mg, which is a 16th of a "normal" daily dose, I think he will do fine. i would even advise just taking the smallest bit he(you, sorry this is to Smadero too), can get away with to keep from feeling withdrawally, and then maybe not taking any sub for about 24, 36 hrs before the surgery. At least that is my plan (no matter what's going on with my back, I am still scheduled for a total left knee on the 31st). They may still need to give you a little extra morphine at first, but after you feel human again and are up and walking, then after a 24 hr hiatus, from narcotics, you could go back on the sub, or just try to wean off whatever they give you after you go home. (Ihad my rt. knee done three years ago.) I have been trying to do the same thing, which is why I went back to 1mg as soon as poss after my back injury.
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Just make sure your othoro knows about how sub works and that you may need extra pain meds right after surgery, due to the fact that some of the sub will still be blocking some of the receptors (mu receptors? , is that right Thor), even at such a very low dose. God Bless you and keep you, Harmony
Hey Ladies,
First let me say all this receptor knowledge is quite new and changes from 1 year to the next. So it's all theories, and as I'm sure you know, a theory is one thing, putting it into practice is often something else entirely. I've been on and off Suboxone and Subutex for 8 years now. I don't know why the things that happen with Bupe do, I just know they do. But yes Harmony. It's supposed to be because of the mu receptor.
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Things will probably be different for you, than for smadero because you've been on Sub a few months, I think? But smadero's been on Sub 4 years. We don't know why Sub keeps effecting a person long after the person is off it. So even if smadero cuts down to .5 mg a day, the fact that she was on much more for 4 years will probably still cause her to need much more Morphine. She'll probably have to base her equivalent amount of Morphine to 4 mg of Bupe. However this shouldn't happen with you, Harmony. Bupe has a lot of good things about it. There are 2 very bad things. Coming off it, and how much Morphine you'll need if you go straight from Bupe to Morphine.
And for everyone's info, if you take .5 mg of Bupe it shouldn't effect other opiates nearly at all. I believe this because the large Butrans patch is .5 mg of Bupe a day, and other opiates are still used for BT pain.
There should be no problem for you smadero. Your real problem is your Doc who doesn't want to deal with the fact that Bupe causes a high tolerance to other pain meds. They can easily just give you extra. Some Doc's are just close minded and I think want to make us suffer because Sub = Dirty drug addict liar. They don't believe more is needed for pain control. They think it's to make us high. They don't believe Bupe blocks the high from almost any drug, and especially from opiates.
Btw Harmony, what happened yesterday. Are you on a better pain med now?
wow... didn't expect your answers... thank you for your help... BUT I still am asking is it possible for me to detox at home from suboxone,or am I going to have to go into treatment?I cancelled my surgery 2x,I don't trust the surgeon who doesn't know or has ever heard of sub.I don't trust the hospital now,no one can give me straight answers at the hospital.I'm scared of becoming dependent on opiates after surgery... my family history is full of addicts Heroin and pain meds.I looked into paying 8,000. from my 401 to get put to sleep to withdraw.Does anyone know how and if that would really work for me.I just want off this.I am weak from grieving the loss of my son KIA in 2007 and I am not in the best of health.I want to play with my Grandkids and feel normal again.I went back and took one small crumb of suboxone and "all was well again" This is such a powerful drug... I wished I would have known this from the get go...
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and I would have come off sooner. The psch who first put me on the subs has now quit his business after seeing him for 6 yrs.So the doc I go to doesnt even know me.
I am really getting frightened.I tried taking a vicodin as a test... I felt nothing..so even 3 days off the crumbs did nothing.I'm old,tired,and broken hearted. You all are so knowledgeable I'm glad I found this site.Should I try again?Did you mean 6 months or 6 weeks?I can hardly fathom this... smadero♥
Smadero, I meant 6 months. Maybe longer. You must do it super slowly or after you come off you will have wds anyway. They call them paws instead of wds. Paws are wds you get after you are totally off an opiate. They can last a long time. But not if you do a super slow taper. Listen smadero, you have been on Sub 4 years. The only way off is a super slow taper. Very few people tried anesthesia. It won't work with Sub.
Now pay attention. Your Doc may never have heard of Suboxone, but if you say Buprenorphine, they will have heard of that. From now on say Buprenorphine. Not Sub.
Medication lesson now. Buprenorphine or, Bupe for short, is the opiate in Suboxone. Bupe is also known as Subutex. So from now on, just say Buprenorphine. It is an opiate and I never met a Doc or a nurse that never heard of it. But I have met Docs and nurses that never heard of Sub.
Do you understand?
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The way you get off Sub, from 4 mg is you cut .5 mg off the dose. You go down to 3.5 mg for 4 weeks. After 4 weeks you go down to 3 mg. You must always put 4 weeks inbetween the cuts in dose. Wen you get down to 1 mg you cut the dose by .25 mg. You put 4 weeks inbetween dose reductions. When you are finally down to .25 mg for 1 month, you then take .25 mg every other day for 4 weeks. At that point you stop.
To do this probably will take 6 months. But once you are off it, you should be fine.
I think if you follow Thors outline, you will be fine! Save your $8000 for better things. Thank you for allowing your son to serve all of us. i am very grateful for his selflessness and his ultimate sacrifice. I know it is not the same as losing a child, but i lost both my parents young. i strongly believe with all my heart, that your son is in a great place, and not only that, he is watching over you in your life right now. I now you miss him dreadfully, but I also believe that You will be reunited with with your son again someday. May God Bless and keep you, Harmony
Thor238 and Harmony, You all are the best!Thank you Thor for your well described plan for detox.I have already done the 6 month down dosage with my theraphist.I have been doing the last dosage ALL wrong! She also told me that the 2nd part of the Sub.med.is in such tiny micro mills,that's what wraps tightly around your brains receptors? Thats actually what makes the drug so hard or long to withdraw.So what to expect with the last doses?Every down grade of the med has brought me something.Spitting up foul stuff,legs cramping,hot spells.ect.I need to get back in with my theraphist to go through this last leg of detox.I'm a sissy Thor.much to my displeasure.I have such a low tolerance to pain... physical or emotional.I need a backbone for this.Can I borrow yours??Oh I was really surprised to hear being put to sleep doesn't work for this drug... I wish the person at the treatment center explained this instead of just telling me my insurance wont cover it...
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I get it now; they just wanted to get me in the door.Well,I got to get busy and get my strength and courage up for the last leg of my journey.I am hoping if I can come clean from this (next is xannax) lose some weight; maybe I can put off the knee surgery for a few more years.I may not be able to do this though if I start feeling REAL pain again.We'll see.Thor I sing praises to you and your wisdom.♥♥♥
Harmony;thank you for your sweet words.I also lost both parents young in a disasterous car crash when I was 6yrs old.My grandmother and Aunts raised me.I lost touch with my brother for 20 yrs after the crash as his bio father came and got him.I know your grief... its very painful.I believe the WORD that says our Great One will look after the orphans.That is you and me.So we really have the BEST Father there is!! I need to increase my faith.This has been an experience I cannot even but into words.Dr.s wont let you grieve without stuffing you full of pills and I was so out of it I just did what ever they told me to do.Now I'm in a fine mess but I have to take responsibility and learn from this for i am the one who continued to pop pills in my mouth.Thank your dear one and I will be praying for you both.Take care.♥
Hey S,
Don't put a lot of credence in the receptor stuff. It's new knowledge that changes often. Just think about what other people have done and what works. Not theories. Btw, to get off of Xanax you have to go just as slow as Sub.
If you intend to detox off Sub get some vitamins. A good B+C Complex is almost a necessity. You also need some kind of exercise. Walking is fine. Start with 5 minutes a day. More if you can. The lower the dose goes, the more you need those walks, and the vitamins. Force yourself to drink water everyday. Sub makes you not want water. During detox force yourself.
I told you that from 4 mg a day to cut the dose by 1 mg a month. If that's too much for you to handle, you can cut down 1/2 mg a month. That is also fine. The detox will just take longer, but it will be easier. Whatever you do don't try and quit 2 drugs at once. Remember this, go slowly and surely, that's the key to success.
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Btw, how much Xanax a day do you take?
and where do you get those little hearts from? I don't see a way to put them in.
dear Smadero, God never gives you anything that you aren't strong enough to bare with His help. He MUST think that you a pretty strong. I have found that all this pain, surgeries, deaths, divorce,etc, well, they have humbled me, and after having it out with God and reminding myself each day that I do some much better just trusting that some good will eventually come out of this. And slowly and in ways I could never have guessed, I can see His hand at work.
I even 'get' to have my other knee replaced on the 31st. Long, but good story. God Bless you, Harmony
Hi Thor
I agree fully with your info on vitamins.I has gastric bypass surgery 14yrs ago so I am on vitamins as I do not absorb.I just got my iron infusions in Sept /2011.I will take these all my life with boosters if needed. I take B12 sublingual Vitamin C/Biotin Zinc,Calcium,Magnesium in one pill.I hope it isn't hype but I just sent for a detox package that give nutrients for the daytime and a separate form for night.If it looks shady I'm sending them back.I have been taking .5 of xannax for over 10 yrs.It started for anxiety attacks,but now I use them every night with Trazadone to sleep.The Trazadone is new .The new sleep
aides such as Ambien,Lunesta ect.caused me to sleep walk.I was always hungry so I surely was not getting my REM sleep.The Trazadone is working on a very low dose.I cut the pill down and feel great.I really don't need the xannax anymore except for occasional anxiety which does not happen much anymore.
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I had tried Serequil and ended up in the hospital overdosed.It was way too strong... but if I really want to knock out I can take a crumb of it and sleep for about 12 hours.So as you see I take meds and use them more than I want to.Im comming on 4 yrs of grieving my son and after 2yrs of laying in bed drugged I want my health back.I found a great support grief group for fallen soldiers parent called TAPS(Tradgedy assistance program for survivors) so I am not alone anymore in my grief.
Im sure when I am finally off suboxone I should wait awhile before doing xannax to let my body heal.I am hoping once I start a good excercise routine I will be able to cut my sleep meds also.Im on a quest to be free.I have a list of things to do before I get to old and they all require good health.Thank you so much for your support.I hope I dont over do all the chatter here.Im a bit compulsive and once I start,well;you see.lol.Take care and I send good health prayers your way.Sybil mother of SPC.Vincent Madero my pride,my heart,my joy kia 10/17/2007 if anyone wishes to google his story.
oh p.s to make my heart just press Alt and 3 on the keypad.simple,and you will notice each time you press Alt and keypad numbers you can get all sorts of characters☻☺♣♦►↕♫☼♪ ect.Take care♥♥♥ Sybil
Hopefully someone/anyone sees this. I, too, have been struggling with dependance. I am an "accidental adddict". I struggle with a severe Basilar Migraine Disorder with daily chronic headaches. Been to the Cleveland Clinic, Ohio State Univ. in a Botox/Allergan study, multiple neurologists... all to no avail. Please (no disrespect), don't offer any suggestions for a "cure", because I'm certain I've "been there, done that" - again... please take no offense, but I'm certain you understand why.
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Anyway, I digress - I am currently taking hydrocodone (10 mg - 12 daily) and just found out that I am taking over the dosage of acetaminophen per day - YIKES!
Even while taking my daily "dose", I am starting to have daily withdrawls... finally after 12 years. And today they wre so bad that I had a panic attack and called and made an appointment with a Subx Dr. - so now that I'm back to "normal". I'm starting to think, why should I go on Subx? - Yes, it will get me out of this horrible world of bondage, but it won't take care of my pain... and then I STILL go through withdrawls coming off the SubX. ** Getting off Vicodin = Getting off SubX = the same to me. At leciggsast with the Vicodin, my pain is somewhat taken care of and I have some control over my dosage and how I can taper off. - Of course, there lies the problem. The addiction REFUSES to let you go.
I guess my question is this; everyone claims it is SO difficult to quit smoking, but as soon as a woman becomes pregnant (hand raised), they can do it. - I don't know how, but some how, some way there has to be an answer. - I hate the bondage of addiction. I remember when I smoked, I would panic if I left the house w/out my ciggs - this is the same, but I can't stop at the local drugstore if I'm empty handed. - On the flip side, I need pain control and even after 12 years... yes it still works.
I was once told that "oh, opiates are SO addictive". Well, no one tells you what that entails. No one says you'll be in the worst pain of your life if you try to stop. Or that you understand why ppl rob stores and commit horrible crimes, trying to get their "fix" while going through withdrawls.
What a horrible monster it is... and it's home is in my body.